Crane XR700/XR3000 INSTALL (pics request)

i am about to remove the points and micro switch set up and install 2 Crane XR3000 units with Crane PS91 coils. i called Crane directly and their tech guys strongly reccommended the xr3000 with the ps91 coils over the xr700 for Ferrari applications with carbs and dual dizzys.

( Crane Cams tech line : 386-252-1151)


i am looking for install pics with layout and wiring shots for ideas. all of the old threads in the archives have lost thier pics in THE GREAT CRASH, and the Pertronix threads wont help me a bit.

the PS91 coils are funny looking, and if they prove to be difficult to install i may go with the conventional PS60 coils.

i think the tach gets its signal from the 5-8 coil from the positive lead (???). a regular coil has the posts to hook your wires up to, whereas the ps91 has spade connectors. not sure i want to cut any of my old wires... the ps91 coils do come with some connectors ect. i need to read all the manuals first.

i have read through the archives, any advice or thoughts on the install would be welcome.

THANKS,


' REAPER


did i mention i hate points yet !
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going with PS60 coils instead. the ps91s are too much of a hassle to install cleanly and i dont want to butcher my wiring. Crane has on the back of the paperwork that ferrari applications may require a tach adapter to solve tach reading problems. the Crane part number is 8-2050. i will update this weekend. now that i know the coils are going in where the old ones were, i can find a nice place for the boxes and still be able to see the LED on the box.





i would like to add that the Crane tech guys were polite and very helpful on the phone.

 

My car came with these Crane XR3000 units installed under the coils, where the resistors would have been. It is a poor installation and I am planning on re-doing it to try to get it to look more like the original setup. I have been a little afraid of looking under the distributor caps because if it does not look 'right' to me I am going to feel compelled to re-do the whole installation. If I pull the caps this weekend I will send some pictures of the inside setup.
BTW These are Lucas non-resistor coils.
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thanks BetaScorpion.


my biggest issue is my forward and aft bulkheads on my GTB are different from the GTS cars that have pics. i cannot mount them on the FWD bulkhead as i have a wire bundle going from top to bottom and fuel lines in the way. if i go inboard i will be getting really close to the exhaust. the rear bulkhead has a steel X member in it that will force me to put both units behind and close to the oil cooler. i am thinking of making a plate and mounting them " feet to feet" and then mounting the bracket just forward of the shock. i want a clean looking install, i may have to make something up!!!

to correct my above post, the Tach signal wires goes to the NEG terminal on the FWD coil.

 

Here are some pics that I saved of someone's inside installation.

What made you decide on the Cranes over the Pertronix?
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Originally one could not use two XR3000 units as they were not adequately shielded and would "crosstalk" with one another. Sounds like they have fixed that problem...good to hear, as the XR3000 sounds like the superior system. Keep us posted on how this works out for you. When I had the dual XR700 units installed in my 78 308GTS, my mechanic installed the units under the coils, but he did a tidier job than what was pictured, and very neatly routed the wires, it looked really nice.

 

Note that the pickups are NOT 90* apart. they are 135* apart, but only because that is easier than 45* apart.

jay

I did manage to fit both of mine on the stock plate. A few parts upside down, backwards, reversed and offset. But it works perfect.

 

I just put a set on my GT4 and the good thing about the GT4 is that there is space in the rear guard that the two modules can be placed which is out of view.I couldn't get to screw them down so I glued them down in place with silicon.Hey are pretty stable in there place and can still be removed for repairs.I'm going to sheath the cables that are attached to the modules coming from the distributors so that it looks tidier.

 

great pics!

no one has any Pertronix available to sell. the x700's are on intergalactic backorder until the middle of october from Crane. this means that Jegs, Summit ect dont have any either.( i called all of them) the only thing available that i can have shippied in to drive my car is the XR3000 system.

my local friend JFRAZAR installed dual x700's in his 308 gts several years ago and is going to help push me along into getting this done.

 

thats good to know. i may call crane and ask them ! my series one Dino had dual crane xr3000s with the big flat PS91 coils. i swear the dino has more room in there under the hood than a GTB does! the boxes were mounted on the fron firewall and the flat couls were mounted on a bracket close to where the old coils would have been. the car started and ran very well. the pics i took of my dino when i had it dont show enough to help me , or anyone else it seems.

 

i agree, i think the 135 marks are what we will be using. i will post pics when i get to this this weekend. my PS60 coils wont be here until friday. i am sending the ps91s back.

 

I, also, went with the more conventionally-shaped coils (just so that wasn't a project too) with 2 Crane XR3000 units. However, I just couldn't get happy with any mounting location inside the engine bay (and didn't want to add any holes that would show if put back to stock) so I went with a "sandwich" of:

top
XR3000s
Alum plate
standoffs (to allow air circulation underneath the plate)
carpet
wood board under carpet (but only attached to the standoff thru the carpet -- i.e., just resting on the bottom panel of the rear trunk).
bottom of rear trunk

in the LH corner of the rear trunk.

(I think I have the Alum plate design as a .jpg somewhere -- give a shout if interested).
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if you make a longer harness, will that affect the way the unit works? thats been most of my issue, is to make everything reach with the wiring they provide. i thought the wiring was special for the optical trigger. if its just "normal" wires, then i can make another, longer harness.

 

i am going to (ahem) copy Pete04222's approach, but mount mine on a bracket i made tonight.


this is a photo taken by Pete04222's car from another thread.

from this location i plan to locate both pickup triggers in the aft dizzy and run the coil wires up the frame rail. will update this weekend!
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I didn't notice any operational trouble, but it was another hassle lengthening the harnesses so I understand your decision (I just wasn't willing to accept the visual impact of that location).

 

That's a shame, my dual pertronix in one dizzy (with no external boxes!) is really a terrific setup.

I like 91tr's mount location though, in the long run it may be worth the trouble of lengthening the harnesses.
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i agree with you on both counts. however, everyone i called said they did not have any Pertronix kits in stock for a marrelli dizzy, and the crane xr700's are all on backorder. i called crane cams directly and pertronix directly to avoid all the middle man retailers. the manufactures told me the same thing, there is a backlog right now. i bought the xr3000 because thats what could be shipped to me asap. i am in school with Flight Safety right now and am not working my normal 65 hours a week... i want to drive the GTB some ! i think the pertronix is a cleaner install as well, and i wish i could hide the xr3000's.

my car is a GTB and i swear there is less room. .... the olny other spot is the front bulkhead but then i have to pull the carpet and trim out to drill the holes. i will look more into that option today.

 

thank you. at least i know there were no issues with cutting the wires!

 

Will a Crane or Pertronix system work on a injected car? If so is it the same stuff as for a carbed car or do I need some other goodies?

 

i think the 308s with injection use a digiplex ignition coupled with CIS injection. this kit is made to go from points to electronic. i do think an MSD or electromotive is a greater step above the Crane set up. however, for a street driven 308 that is not tracked, i cant justify the cost of an MSD or Electromotive.

the short answer is i dont think you can use the crane system on an injected 308. i know it will work on GM, Ford ect domestic applications as the install instructions have lots of vehicle options listed.

going to pull my plugs and mark the flywheel. everything but the pickups are installed now.

 

got car running yesterday, thanks to JFRAZAR for his help setting up the pickups in the dizzy. we went with 2 pickups in the rear bank distributer timed 135 apart.

the cars personality has really changed. the new exhaust + airbox mods , new plugs, wires, extenders, coils + the XR3000s and i know my timing is spot on with the marks.

i really like the fact i only have to do the timing on 1 bank now with both pick ups in 1 dizzy. i made a bracket to mount the xr3000s on. i will post pics when i get the wire loom to wrap my wires in. right now i am using temporary orange tie wraps ( reusable) . i am concerned about the heat on the lower aft firewall from the rear banks exhaust, but the xr3000s are several inches longer than the xr700s and i had no other options without doing some cutting. i am going to replace my plug again and regap as i am on the same set from the points, regapped to .035. i may need to play with the aircorrector and see how the car responds.

car has 55/135/200 F36 set up so far. i cant read the plugs until i install a new set as the 2 week old set i had in there were ruined by the bad points.


idle is a bit higher than i would like. will check the carb sync last when i know the ignition is spot on. took the car on a long drive to the beach in the early morning cool air, the car and i both were happy!

thanks for the help

next are the fuel hoses on the fuel tanks....

 

i called Crane today,

(i made friends with one of the techs, so he doesnt seem to mind me bugging him, and i have free long distance . )

i found out that Crane reccommends a.045 plug gap with the XR3000.

not sure about the xr700 as i am not using them.

i called about moving my boxes as i am concerned about the heat. i asked if i could get longer cables from them already made up to lengthen the runs from the box to the dizzys. they said emphatically NO. the cables and boxes are sensitive to resistance and to the length of the cables run. no cutting or adding lenths of cable is allowed or the unit WILL NOT function properly.

they were very excited to hear i had both pickups in one dizzy in a Ferrari application. they said to NOT put any sort of shielding around the trigger wires, do not cut or splice the trigger wires, and to make sure the trigger wires are away from the spark plug wires. i am going to cover my trigger wires with regular GM wire loom i have laying around.( if i can find it!)

i may lengthen the re route the coil wires to make the install look nicer.

the .045 plug gap really threw me. the bigger gap is to use the amps from the box for a better, hotter spark to the plugs. i went from the points spark plug gap of .025 to .035. i need to get a new set of NGKBP6ES plugs anyway, and i will gap to .045 and let ya all know.


car runs WAYYYYYYYY better with this new ignition. i am VERY HAPPY with it, and with the support i have gotten from Crane Cams Techs.

 

i relocated the boxes aft to the trunk area. they are WAY WAY cooler to the touch now. i used some old wire loom i had laying around, not concurs, but it will protect the wires from damage and heat transfer. i made labels for everything, so if its every taken apart, its easier to put back the way it was!!

i ordered new plugs today and will regap to .045 and install when they come in tomorrow.

it runs freaking awesome!
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Thanks for posting the information on you experience with the XR3000 units. This will help in my quest to make a 'stealth' system. Since my car already had the units installed and runs perfect, there is not much more for me to do except 'improve' on the setup and try to hide it.
I am sure you read in the installation instructions about getting the system lined up so the rotor points at the right place at the time of ignition.
I don't know if you saw the picture from the '1979 gt4' thread,(http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136087708&postcount=121) but the setup on my car was off and you can see by the marks that is not lined up at the time of ignition. Did you do anything special to get yours lined up (like cutting a hole in a spare distributor cap?)

 

we timed it by static timing the motor with the dizzy reinstalled at the 7 degree mark and then fine tuned the trip point with the ignition boxes on and the coils disabled. this way you can locate the rotor by the reaction of the LED lights and not get the piss shocked out of you . i rechecked the timing on both banks uning the 1 dizzy and i can go with a bit more advance to get to 34 degrees at 5000rpm. i am going to wait until i get the new plugs in and see how they read after some miles. the old plugs are only 2 weeks old , but are fuel fouled from the failing points system i just removed.

i have all the points stuff and microswitch + wires intact in a box!


the 2 pickups in one worked out really well. the xr3000s are bigger than the xr700s and use a different system to manage the spark. Crane stressed the importance of using either PS91 "flat" coils or the PS60s i went with. the plug gap is spec'ed by them at .045 and is very important for the proper spark. i am at .035 , up from the points plug gap of .025. hence why im getting a new set of NGKBP6ES's. i have a full set of 5's, but have found them to be too hot in the past.

current carb setting is 55/135/220 F36. i think i am lean on the top end so i would like to order a set of 190 aircorrectors. i know my fuel pressure and float height is correct.


by the way, there is a ballast resistor block on each old points coil with a red jumper wire to the + on the coil. i found that the yellow wires are hot in both key positions " on and start" and the red ones are only on in "start". i hooked both up to the positive post on the coils. be sure to hook the tach lead up to the 5-8 bank NEGATIVE post on th coils.

i hope this helps guys.

Michael