OLD F-1 Cars For Sale

I know Ferrari has auctioned off some of it's old F-1 cars for a decent buck. Do the other constructors do the same? I was just wondering what some of those cars would fetch. I assume collectors close to the teams probably scoop them up quick..




Thanks.
Vince C.

 

Ferrari is somewhat unique in that they have the Clienti Corsi programme, which I think it is a bit of a mixed blessing: You get to drive the car and it is always in perfect condition, but you pay through the nose and never really "own" the car. It really is a "arrive and drive" kinda deal, for better or worse.

Other teams basically keep the cars or make gifts of them and they end up in the "used F1 car market". A F1 car (not Ferrari) goes from 80k to about half a million. Depends on the rarity, condition and historical importance of the car.

I'm trying to convince a friend of mine that he needs one.

 

I always have one or two post 1988 Ferrari F1 cars for sale.

Over the years we have had many 89-2001 cars pass through our hands.

We currently have an 89 at $695K and a 97 at $895K. Both are fresh and ready to go.

I have also sold, raced and traded multiple Scuderia Ferrari Cars to SEFAC Team Cars from the 1930s through early 1980s. Lots of interesting cars and many stories...

Getting your hands on any of these machines is relatively simple but of course never inexpensive!

Warm regards,

Bill Noon

 

When you say "old," how old are you talking? I've seen plenty of Jordans and Minardis for sale. A couple Williams-Renault cars, Benetton, Arrows, etc. Also a couple very old Brabham cars, but nothing like a BT55 or something. Someone here said Bernie pretty much has all of those in a garage somewhere.

 

Andreas, I think the guys actually DO hold title to the car, Mr. Noon would know...as he indicates they are sold to the owner and then they support the cost of the techs on Track Day..

There's a high roller here that has one and at the FFQC FoH techs started the car, warmed it up, belted him in and tapped the helment to "go" jus' like he was Schumi!!!!!

I need to remember to loan them my red lolipops next year, that would be a nice detail!

 

Recall also the engines are VERY imited in lifespan without attention/overhaul..

Like Valeria's drag racing brothers, they need tear down almost weekly if used...I tell them "You guys take things apart too much!"

But it really is required at this level of horsepower/component strain.......

 

I thought the Clienti cars were rev limited so that the "average owner" would only require 1 engine rebuild per year?

Bernie owns all the "interesting" Brabhams, they were racked in a hanger near Stansted airport (UK, near Cambridge) + a few in a place he has in Switzerland - but that was a while ago.

 

That could well be......makes perfect sense to avoid 'zinging' the motor!

 

I read in F1 racing mag that by reducing the rev limit by just 1000rpms will triple the life of the engine from 300 miles to 1000 miles. I think this was mentioned before the 2 race per engine specifications came out.

 

I read that the 1k rev limit doubled the life of the engine from 400km to 800km.

 

By extending this logic, running the car at say 9-10K rpms will give it a life of 360 Modena.

 

I don't doubt that they hold a title, but the thing that would irk me (if I had that kinda money) is the fact that you don't have the car in your garage, you don't have the right to tamper with it and you can't even change the logos if you wanted to (e.g. make it a proper Marlboro car instead of the silly stripes). After the session they take it home and store it. Also you are pretty much bound by whatever service costs they think are necessary. No DIY here.

Obviously all of that is fine and good if you are swimming in money and if you want a modern F1 where you really need a standing army of technicians to maintain it, heck just to start it.

That's why I would get a relatively simple F1 from the pre turbo days with a run of the mill Cossie in it. That you can take to your local race shop for maintenance and you don't have to fly in a factory approved mechanic.

 

True...at the event 12 guys were equipped with tire warmers, laptops the whole shebang!!

Well, maybe more like 6...but still quite a few......

 

Bill,

What year do you have to go back to so that these cars can be easily managed by a couple of people to get away form the electronics?

Drew Altemara

 

I'm not Bill but my answer would have been pre turbo. Turbos per se didn't have much electronics, but the engines were finicky. Past the turbo era there were a few years (late eighties early nineties) where you could also get away without the standing army. Problem is, that then you don't qualify for historic racing:

GP cars can be entered basically in two series: Modern and classic. Pre turbos gets you into the classic series. Post turbos you are racing against modern cars and the guy with the 2004 F1 Ferrari will always win.

I wouldn't really want a sixties F1, they were coffins on wheels. Seventies were a tad better and given all the factors of cost, maintenance, relative safety and participating in racing series, I think the sweet spot is 75-83. And a non turbo Cossie in the back.

 

Word out of Woking is that Ron Dennis is quietly selling off the Mclaren museum collection.

 

I have a feeling they won't unless the rest of the field is part of the Clienti program. Their pratice and experience in the car is rather limited. I wouldn't be surprised if someone else would win because of the owner having more pratice...

 

So you're saying that the Corse Clienti program members can't even participate in historic F1 racing? Yikes. That's like having a super model as your girlfriend and not being able to ....

 

No, I was saying that they can't just practice whenever they want where they please. I'm sure they can do historics, but with limited practice, I doubt the drivers will be very much ahead of those who can practice all they want (of course if money wasn't a problem). So an F1 car from the late 90s could beat an F2004 imo simply based on experience. Heck, maybe even a turbo car could. It would be cool seeing MS's Jordan beating MS's F2004.

 

Ah, understood. There is an heir to a mustard empire who owns a mid nineties Benetton and he pretty much beats everybody on the track. He practices a lot and he is good. He was at the BRIC this year.

 

Is his name Gary Poupon?

 

Nope. Brian French.

 

Silly name, I like Gary Poupon better.

 

I know the owner of a 93 Ferrari F1 car (ex Alesi) and he keeps it in his garage (or at Donington museum) and runs it when he likes.

I think Clienti engines are limited by a few 000 rpm to stretch their service life. Read it somewhere, something like 12000 rpm instead of 15000 so about 20%.

There is a lot of time in the driver, of an F1 car without aids.

 

I am reading this thread, and I am wondering: Are these guys really thinking of buying and using (racing) some of the F1s of the last 10/15 years?

Apart from the purchase cost, and the mechanical maintenance (somebody quoted reducing revs to increase engine life - good thinking that), do you realise that most, if not all, of the recent F1s have carbon fibre chassis?

A carbon fibre chassis tub has a limited lifespan, and may not survive for very long in historical racing for example. I saw the photo of an ex-Alboretto F1 Ferrari that broke in half after a few years of historical racing in the States.

When chassis were tubular or aluminium monocoque, it was easy to fix them if you had some sort of 'track indiscretion'; it was a job for the welder or the fabricator: costly, but possible. That's how so many of historical crashed cars have reappeared.

It's different with carbon fibre, that's why often a team will scrap a tub that had a serious off-road, because its integrity was compromised; repair is out of the question. Ageing is difficult to detect with carbon fibre too.

Unless you have access to the moulds, carbon fibre technology, and ... lots of cash to replace them periodically, carbon fibre chassis are a no no.

I was just wondering if someone knows better.