Jim, Thanks for the input. Yes, we are aware that there is a potential problem with the odometer. However, the problem that exists does not match this situation. We have spoken with a Ferrari expert at a well known Ferrari authorized service department. He knows the particulars on this vehicle. He also explained the existing problem with Ferrari. While it is possible for an odometer to turn, it is not a battery issue, it is a generating issue. Most important - it is NOT self-rectifying. The odometer would continue to turn, possibly even faster with higher voltage and slower with a dying battery. This is potentially great news for me, as my car possibly has only 500 miles on it? LOL. I appreciate the input. Unfortunately, it has added to the Smoke and Mirrors for Euro Motorsports as they have seized any possible answer for the mystery miles. I would be willing to entertain this idea, if it wasn't for the fact that my car's odometer is NOT turning with the key in the ignition now and Euro Motorsport has not posted a repair receipt for the supposed issue. One last note, the Ferrari mechanic did state that given the situation, it was far more likely that aliens dropped down and took my car for a joyride than it was an odometer issue. Thanks for the great input. Brian 512M P.S. I have scanned the documents I have and will download on my next reply.
Good Morning Gentlemen: Sorry I was interrupted last night. The midwest suffered a Microsoft Explorer issue, but we're up and running again. Here are the documents I promised: First is the inspection done by Tim Stanford with 23,330 miles noted Next are the four pages of the Agreemtent to Purchase from 7/22/06 (one has 7/20/06 written on it, but that is in error - sorry) with the odometer reading 23,332 miles. Then follows the purchase order for the vehicle on the day I flew down (7/26/06) to personally inspect the vehicle. You can see the odometer reading at 23,533. I also noted this figure in my personal records. Next is the Auto Transport Order between Euro Motorsports and Autobahn Transportation. Daniel has already posted the inspection report (which as we can all see shows NO undercarriage damage) and it should be noted that when he signed off the vehicle, he did so without noting mileage. Autobahn has already apoligized to me for their error in not doing so. Then you will see the documentation from Lake Forest Sports Cars with a mileage reading of 23,631 on receipt. I was there within two hours of their receipt and in response to those who alleged Lake Forest Sports Cars put the 98 miles on my car, the engine was stone cold. Also, for the individual who decided I had been out riding in it, please note that I did not drive this car until 8/18/06 when additional work I commissioned was completed. Finally, there is a copy of the title, which they swore was clear. I didn't receive it for an additional 2 weeks due to the lien that had been placed on it. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Sorry, some of the images didn't go through. The images from Tim Stanford's inspection and the original Agreement to Purchase on 7/22 are missing. I'll try again. Brian 512M Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Out of curiosity, LRC, what do you want Daniel to do? I am just trying to figure out if what you want is reasonable or not.... Many times a dealer will offer something in good faith, just to appease a customer, even if they bare no fault... What is it you want?
Originally, all I asked for was help in determining the responsible party. My car had been damaged and someone other than myself and LFSC was responsible. Dan at Euro Motorsports promised he would get to the bottom of it. Unfortunately, I also followed up and found out they didn't even contact Sam from Autobahn until 6 weeks after the fact. For the record, Sam does maintain his innocence. They also promised that they had a tape that would clear their good name which they would copy and send to me. Still waiting. Obviously, individual photos of the car posted on line without the complete video leaves a lot of suspicious holes, where the whole tape could have closed them. When it became apparent that they were not willing to help me, I contacted my attorney. He informed me of both my rights and the law regarding who had the contract with the transportation company and where point of sale actually took place (Lake Bluff, IL) due to the delivery location. He said a fair assessment of damages would be the repairs to the undercarriage and then the loss for miles driven. This is easily estimated because there are Ferrari rentals across the country and the standard distance allowed is 100 miles. The only problem is, no one in the country will rent out a 512M, so an assessment of $2,500 for the unauthorized "rental" and security deposit, would most likely cover the damage to the vehicle and life could go on. However, I was never given the opportunity to meet my "renter" and collect their driver's information and insurance information, so any further internal damage (clutch specifically) is also being left as my responsibility. This isn't even discussing the wrong battery. Luckily, the damage was minimal, but it could have been catastrophic. I guess I'm just out the battery. Obviously, I no longer believe they will accept any responsibility and make a good faith offer. I'm the least responsible party in this matter and the one who's had to grin and bear it. I guess this will end with a phrase we use up here in the midwest. "Take care of your guy, or get a black eye." Thanks for asking. Brian 512M
Based on what you have posted it looks like Autobahn took your car for a joyride and they owes you more then an apology. They did not fill in mileage and they noted NO undercariage damage. Your car arrived with undercariage damage......yet it left with none. Gosh now lets see Carrier says no damage when they picked it up and it arrived with damage when they dropped it off.....who could of done it??? maybe it was those aliens you were talking about????
Without reference to who should be dealing with Autobahn for redress, doesn't this fact point to Autobahn as the most likely culprit? They didn't note the mileage and they didn't note any undercarriage damage (despite being meticulous about other defects). When it arrived at your delivery point, it had excess miles AND undercarriage damage.
That purchase order was not the final deal that you signed in our office. This is the purchase order showing the mileage the day you were her Brian. It also has "YOUR" signature. This is the scan of my copy of the original document that actually applies to this deal. I was thoughtful enough to blot your address and phone numbers. This what the state gets. Please note the miles. Tell the WHOLE story. The fax copy you have posted was the first fax you got. I never received a deposit based upon that first contract so whether it was electrical or not as far as the 200 "exact" miles prior to you actual purchase are concerned, there is no concern. At that point it was my car still and although no one here drove the car we still had the right to if we wanted. I will have the other frames downloaded this afternoon to show the car being pushed at all points in time that it was moved. If it was moved by jump starting, and it may have been once, every inch it was moved is on the DVR as well. "YOU CAN'T WIN" Image Unavailable, Please Login
Sorry for the confusion on the undercarriage damage Sloan. Euro Motorsports and I are both aware that Tim Stanford noted slight undercarriage damage on the driver's side of the vehicle in his initial report. The fact that it didn't appear on the documented inspection between Dan and Sam tells us that NO ONE checked under that vehicle when it left Euro Motorsports. The additional damage noted by LFSC on arrival was on the PASSENGER side as well as the additional DRIVER side damage. The damage does not indicate loading drag, but rather high speed impact (bottoming out). LFSC compared the damage with the report prepared by Tim Stanford. It's still a whodunit. What's it's not is a "who's responsible". It's my vehicle and my contract is with Euro Motorsports. If Euro Motorsports genuinely believes Autobahn is responsible, they should give Sam the full, unedited tapes to prove their innocence and then file a claim against Autobahn's insurance. That is the type of customer service that I expected and it would have led me to do business with Euro Motorsports in the future. However, I don't believe we should, as a community, heap the blame on the transport company without evidence and without them even being here to defend themselves. Hopefully Sam has the ability to chime in. I did speak with him recently. And in his absence, I do feel it is only fair to say that the word locally has been nothing but good regarding his business. Thanks for the input. Brian 512M
This entire problem is unfortunate for the parties involved, and espcially bad for the car dealer. Especially later when someone new can do a thread search on this company through this site. The Internet can both be really good and really bad for business. I hope all this gets resolved.
GEE LOOKS LIKE 23,533 TO ME. Daniel, I commend you for blotting out his phone number. I know If I had been in your shoes, I would have at least been tempted to post it. Glad you took the high road. As a impartial witness to this trainwreck... I personally think your professional way of responding to these accusations has supported your position. Simon
Dan, thank you for not posting my contact information. That was very professional and I thank you for acknowledging that I haven't given permission for you to do so. I guess I'm confused. I already posted this document dated 7/26/06 - the day I bought the car. I've never said you didn't have the legal right to drive the car after 7/22/06. Let's just be clear. Tim Stanford inspected the car at 23,330. It approximately 2 miles from your place of business to his. I agreed to purchase the vehicle on Saturday 7/22/06 with 23,332 as seen on the documentation I have posted. When I arrived to hand you my check, the vehicle was at approximately 23,531. We took a test drive of approximately 2 miles with an end mileage of 23,533. The vehicle was purchased at 23,533. The vehicle arrived at LFSC with 23,631. This seems to represent that someone enjoyed driving the vehicle. All of this brings us back to the simple question - how did the mileage get on the car? We've addressed the odometer running rampant and then magically fixing itself theory. It is clear from the inspection done at LFSC that this is not the case and their take on it was that it was far more likely that an alien had dropped down from space and driven the car. So, we're back to whodonit. You feel that this tape is the answer. But, unless I receive the full, unedited version that you have promised me, I will always be left with the suspicion that facts have been blurred. Regardless, my contract is with Euro Motorsports, not Autobahn, not the aliens ... The right thing for Euro Motorsports to do would have been a full investigation in an effort to get to the bottom of this. It's too bad I've had to do this on my own. The right thing now is to send me the full, unedited version of this tape, so that I may view it. I promise that if I see no evidence to the contrary, I will happily come back on this site and post in bold letters that I firmly believe that Euro Motorsports did not drive this car. Why didn't you want to help me from the get go? We wouldn't be here talking about this now if you would have sent me the tape 6 weeks ago. Why is this about "winning"? Don't you "win" by providing good customer service and having your customers rave about the treatment they received? Is your business only interested in the single sale? Brian 512M
This is where you loose credibilty: All facts lead to the carrier and yet you wish to defend them yet you came here attacking Daniel. I don't wish to continue going back and forth with you as it seems you have it in for Daniel even when the facts don't support it. The carrier is in a very bad position as their inspection form is designed to protect them from fault and their failure to fill it in properly has left them exposed to an action by you (I can imagine that they are being very nice to you right now) and yet you don't see this. Try This: Notify the carrier by certified mail that your car was delivered with damage that was not noted on the pick up inspection and that there is a milelage issue as well. Wait for a WRITTEN response then hire a FL attorney to pursue the matter is the response does not appease you. They are the ones that are liable they failed to protect themselves. Stop attacking Daniel and deal with the problem! This is what you should have done from Day 1 Maybe Daniel should have done this for you but based on how you operated here I would guess that you most likely called him and attacked him from the start and that is why you got nowhere....you attack 1st and ask questions second and that's why you are where you are.
Simon, Please see my posting #79 and #80. This is the same document I posted - I merely posted the complete set with explanations for the order things took place. I was asked for documentation and I provided it. I am NOT hiding facts here. I'm the only one who definitely didn't cheat anyone out of anything. And I have thanked dan already for blotting out the contact information. Just taking the high road. Brian 512M
What do you mean ? I always reasonable very early on I suggested maybe the carrier was at fault and I now I firmly believe the carrier is liable. Maybe someone will now go after the carrier....then again maybe he will argue that as well.
I haven't read this entire thread, I just saw the purchase price on that doc posted. The car is worth MORE (much more) than you paid for it. I would kick this all under the bridge and move on. That car is rare, 4 examples were made in yellow that I am aware of. One of them I know is here locally in CA. The price is (if he were to sell it) is NO WHERE near what you paid. Here is the way I look at things 1)Be happy 2)Start it 3)Drive it 4)Stare at it 5)Park it Repeat 1 thru 5 every week. It will all be OK
Yup. For a clean car it is. The last clean one I ran into sold for $159k And it sold in less than a month. The good ones are hard to find. In this case, ANY are hard to find
still have em on..... I know tom hates it when I wear them especially to the track..... regards, Jim......
Wouldn't the legal fees and all the hassle markedly outweight the possible remuneration? Why not let this senseless an childish behavior stop? If you have so much money to purchase such a rare toy, why are you sweating over this pidly amount of bucks? Next time buy a car and drive it yourself home. From what I've seen in reading this entire thread is that I would still consider purchasing a car from Daniel if I were in the market.
