Gang,if you don't want your cars ended up like these ones....... GRAPHIC,not for the weak of hart! Speedman Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Then get yourselves quickly one of those hot-shot babies... Sure adds some weight and a little space is lost...but U feel sooo good. Industrial quality,not the economy class... I always do carry them in my TR,and only take the big one out when I need that extra luggage space(locally in town when shopping). Indeed,that trunk is bigger than my wife's Audi Cabriolet....!!! Big one,for a big sudden disaster,small one for a small fire,and a 2 liter bottle of water for....when you're thursty! Speedman Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
this is an interseting thread. I too was worried about enjoy the music's set-up. I like it but is that tank big enough and it does not protect him in the cockpit from fire and what if he is in a accident and can't press the button ( knocked out or otherewise incapacitated and can't reach it) or the system is damaged ( I worry about this guy on the track--don't know why, but I do). also how does he know he has a engine fire in time...should this type of system incorporate and engine head or engine bay temp guage. I carry a medium size halon but will up the size for now and see how all this shakes out for best practice ( despite insurance and advice to "let her burn down" - I think it would be a waste and I could not sit and see that happen to my beloved rides) will upgrade my fuel lines what is the best hose for this purpose..I am going to bag the OEM stock rule for these lines..
Yeah, let all the old Ferrari's burn to the ground until they are all gone. Great idea. And I suppose if you built your car from the ground up from parts and pieces, cleaned, painted and assembled every part, and put your engine and gearbox together and installed it all yourself, you would feel the same way after pouring your heart and soul into it? There were perhaps 60-70,000 cars built while Enzo ran the show that I consider to be the "true" Ferrari's. You may argue, but consider a Stratovarious Violin. The ones "he" built are worth far far more than the ones built "after". Every time one is destroyed, it removes one more car from that number. I can assure you that 100 years from now, a burned car that is correctly restored will be worth just as much as any other.
You make very good point and I would hate to see a Ferrari burn to the ground. But when talking dollars and ferrari's do cost a lot of dollars. I tend to agree with Charlie more. But if my car wasnt insured. I would be jumping on it putting out the flames with my body
Fire and theft are the only 2 things that are considered irreversible in the Vintage Car / Race Car circles. ABC extinguishers are best for fire fighting but when water is applied to clean the crap off it produces phosphoric acid which will cause untold havoc to all the aluminum. I cant remember the formula right off hand but one must use alcohol and baking soda as I remember in an attempt to neutralize and release the agent. At the race track I have had engine fires where a Halon did not completely put the fires out (huge fire) but knocked it down to manageable levels. Corner workers run over with dry chem but most drivers / owners will hold them off and wait for another driver to stop with another Halon if life is not at risk. I had a 360 owner that took his car to the track and ran for 2 days. He ran the rear pads to metal which threw enough sparks to ignite the plastic wheel wells. The fire was put out with a dry chem. extinguisher and then washed off with water and allowed to sit for a week or 2 before he got it inspected. Imagine pouring large amounts of Mag wheel cleaner on an aluminum engine / transaxel / body and chassis and the related wiring! Dry chemical extinguishers and Ferrari's do not play well together. They are corrosive and abrasive in nature. Halon will cause no damage at all. One needs only to shoot them through the grill work and never open the hood / deck lid as this only lets more oxygen in and fuels the fire even further. This is why the Halon (Halatron is the new earth friendly alternative) gas is the preferred choice, as the gas will go around obstructions. The best combination in my opinion is a 2 1/2# (any smaller is just not enough safty margin) Halon SECURELY mounted in the cockpit (do not need a missle in the drivers compartment) within arms reach. Dave
[ Many thanks, truly appreciate the concern. This winter i may add another nozzle inside the driver's foot well... and might uprate the tank size from the current 5 lbs to 10lbs. The 5 lb with current nozzle setup (as i recall) is said to deliver agent for about 45 seconds to 1 minute). Will call FireBottole tomorrow and verify. As for temp gauge that would set off a light in the passenger compartment to alert me at XXXF, that should be fairly easy. On the track the flag marshalls are good at seeing things and if they come running with those large red cans... The dual buttons (both inside the cockpit and outside) allows for myself, or a flag marshall/corner worker easy access. Of course nothing is perfect in life and the only way to be 100% sure that the 308 is 100% safe is for me to never have the car. Simply having the car is a risk. Driving it on the road to get bread and milk is a higher risk. Tracking the car can be a deadly risk. While at the track it may not show on my face, there is sanity and reality. Anyone who attended the Labor Day event at WGI got an eyefull of reality in crunched cars, and fortunately no one was seriously injured. The sad fact is, i do know a few folks who suffered the ultimate cost. Frankly, the car means little compared to my life. You are doing the right things with preventative by upgrading the oil/fuel lines. Believe me, check my lines often. At the track i ALWAYS check them visually (and physically if i feel something looks awry) after each and every track session. In fact found a technical failure with my car (coolant line had small leak) literally 5 minutes AFTER my car passed tech inspection at an event this year. Took the time to fix the coolant line, burped the coolant system, tested the system in the pits to be sure of fix... Only after being 100% sure she was at 100% did the car enter the track. Again, very much appreciate your concern. FYI: my wife was literally in tears yesterday as we discussed my tracking habit. She supports me 100% and has attended a few events with me. She is aware of my ability and also knows that i take the side of caution versus 'heroics.' She watches races on TV and sees the incidences and some of the SpeedTV news footage scares her, as they tend to show/highlight the really messy crashes at times. Yet again, your concern is very much valid and at the last track event i ponied up the $1k to get the Hans system. Buy no matter how much safety gear one has within the car, things can happen The sad reality is every time we drive our cars we take risks. Of course these risks are higher if we track our cars. No matter how safe we are, there could be something on the track that happens that we can not avoid. Cars can have technical incidences no matter how well prepared and all the warning system in the world can not solve all the risks. Color me a guy with a healthy dose of fear and respect for the track.
Make that 2 1/2 # for a street car. The onboard 10# for a race car is the system of choice for me. I have installed many 5# onboard systems in valuable street cars as well (SWB's, PF Cab's, F-40's / 50's) for piece of mind. Dave
A quick point and a question. Get a seat belt cutter and put it in your car. I have four family members that work for the fire department, and in everyone of their cars you will find one. Seatbelts jamming are a very real possibility.(especially in a rollover.) They make ones that are slim (about the size of a small window scraper, and some about the size of a credit card.) Hopefully youll never have to use it, but just in case good to have. I thought that halon worked by eliminating the oxygen in the air? If that is true, I would think that you would not want one for the cockpit of your car. If you had to use it in the cockpit to put out a fire while trying to get out, wouldnt it prevent you from breathing? And I wouldnt want a pressurized container of it sitting in their with me either. Seems like it should be mounted under the bonnet not in the cab.
Dry chemicals are worthless as they smother the fire, their is a purple type that is especially for gas/oil fires used at race events that works better than Halon supposedly
Mounted in the cockpit only for quick retrieval. The 2 1/2# only come in hand held type. They work quite well at removing oxygen. Had to do some quick wiring under the dash of a race car just before going out on the grid. Driver had already pulled the safety pin on his onboard system. I finally found a contorted way of getting throught the roll cage to the underside of the dash when my elbow found the push handle. It works well! I only use the electronic or the pull types from that day on. Dave
Just called FireBottle and they said a 5 lbs, 2 nozzle system will release the contents for 30 seconds. They said to install a nozzle in the passenger cabin. So perhaps a 10 lbs system with three nozzles would be a good system all around.
Most of these posts here are concerning worst case fires. Like busted fuel hose's etc.. I personally have had two minor fires in my cars ( as if any fire can be considered minor). One was the wires binding in the steering rack of a Ford, the other a small fire i put out with sand and water on a fire i accidently started my self under the hood. Point is we should have a safely secured fire extinguisher in the cabin of every car we own. No one can predict what might happen to them, but at least the odds are more in your favor with a fire extinguisher at your ready. The fire in the Ford happened in the summer driving on 95 in NY. Picture melting plastic on fire from the steering column dropping between my legs while im driving at 60mph wearing shorts and trying to pull over...scary. I would have used any kind of extinguisher then!
I posted in the main thread on this question but I am providing some additional links in this post as well since it is an important issue. http://www.nsc.org/library/facts/carfire.htm http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1207557&page=1 http://www.fireservice.co.uk/safety/carfires.php http://www.paturnpike.com/newsletters/summer98/page-9.htm http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=consumer&id=3534000 http://www.burnsurgery.com/Modules/prevention/motor_vehicle/car_fires.htm Some quotes: "Flames aren't the only dangers when experiencing a car fire. Toxic fumes from burning plastic and synthetic materials used to build today's automobile can be lethal. Some cars equipped with a gas shock absorber in the front bumper, or gas struts (pressurized cylinders which may hold a car's hood or back window upright) can become projectiles if fire or intense heat reaches them, causing them to explode." "The National Fire Protection Association reveals that cars burn on American highways once every two minutes." "If the car catches fire, experts say, most injuries and deaths can be prevented by moving 100 feet away. Also, firefighters say you should never open the hood to fight the fire yourself. Doing so only feeds oxygen to the flames." "The reason that most cars fire deaths occur in crashes is not the increased frequency of fires, but the inability of the passengers to escape. Professional fire service opinion is that the occupants of a car which has caught fire have at best SECONDS TO GET OUT." "What to do if your car is burning? Immediately pull over to the shoulder. Turn off the ignition. Exit rapidly and immediately. Get yourself and your passengers far away from the car. Call 911 and wait."
Amen, though at the track it might be slightly different. Immediately stop the car off racing line BUT NOT ON DRY GRASS Press FireBottle release button and remove key (if fire not in pass compart). Get out of car Remove electrical cut-off and press FireBottle activation as needed Wait for flag/track Marshalls and, eventually, heavy vehicles Thanks the G-ds for Nomex.
As always, many thanks for the concern. Of course i need to weigh the situation and adjust accordingly. Frankly, if i flip the car then something VERY SERIOUS happened as she is lowered and has a slightly wider stance due to wider tires. Amen and agree the track is where it is at. Just came back from my mechanics as we did some dyno tuning/work. Please believe me, i keep the car in TOP order and even if something minor (like a non-working windshield wipe and it is raining but RainX is doing well) i STILL come into the pits and take care of the wiper. SCR$W THE F%$GGIN CAR, IT IS MY LIFE AT STAKE!!! Trust me, i'll run away from that car or not do a track day/session before i put myself at undue risk. Have done it before and will do it again. Glad you like seeing the 308 on the track, A LOT of work has gone into her for safety... and tweaking. Another true story... was at WGI for four consecutive days in May/June for SCDA and FCA event. On the 4th day i realized i was tired and my concentraition was lacking during a session so i pulled into the bay. i must have sat out about 1/2 the sessions that day and have zero regrets in doing so. Still, i am not perfect... the car is not 'perfect' per se... but i would NEVER og on the track knowing something is not up to the job at hand... including myself.
