Used Lotus Elise falls below $30K

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=209975474&dealer_id=58543563&car_year=2005&search_type=both&num_records=&make=LOTUS&transmission=&model=LOTELISE&distance=0&make2=&address=07977&advanced=&certified=&max_mileage=&max_price=33000&bkms=1159925623683&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=25000&body_code=0&end_year=2007&color=&start_year=1981&drive=&engine=&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=340

Lot of car for $29K...

 

i'd love to buy one, but they are still in their heavy depreciation phase. wait a year or so and there will be a lot to choose from below 30K. once they hit the low 20s, they'll be a real bargain.

john

 

Thanks for posting this...I've been thinking about picking one up. I wish it was a coupe...but it might just work.

Steve

 

It's a fair price for what you get.

 

The Lotus Exige is available in the US as well - see here http://www.siliconvalleyautogroup.com/lotus_stock/lotus_740/photo_page.html

Alternatively you could get a factory hard top for the Elise:
http://www.siliconvalleyautogroup.com/lotus_stock/lotus_689/photo_page.html

If you don't want soemthing as hardcore as the Exige/Elise, the Europa S has just been released in the UK - http://www.grouplotus.com/car/car_product.php?id=7&mid=19 I'm sure it'll be available in the US soon.

There was a good article in last month's UK Evo comparing the latest Elise S (134 BHP model - I don't think it's available in the US with this engine) to an original 10 year old Elise: http://www.evo.co.uk/cargrouptests/cargrouptests/202511/lotus_s1_elise_v_lotus_s2_elise_s.html

There's also a good review of the Europa S in this month's Evo, but that's not available online yet.

I've driven an Elise on the Sepang F1 track in Malaysia, and I can tell you that it's an AMAZING car. I can't say how it compares to an F-car as I'm yet to drive an F-car, but the Elise in isolation was astounding - so direct and pure! I'm sure I've read about an f-chatter who says he prefers his Elise to his F430!

I wish cars were as cheap in the UK as the US - $29k is about £15,500 and for that you get a 2001/2002 Elise over here (with the less powerful Rover engine), not a 2005 one...

 

great deal no doubt, my only concern is maintanence...

 

It's a toyota engine.... I would think it would be easy to get serviced but I have no data to support this claim.....

 

That is a lot of car for under $30k. I agree about waiting a little longer. You never want the cheapest example of anything.

I'm very tempted but at the same time I do enjoy having a modicum of utility in a sports car, like for instance being able to fit golf clubs or the ability take a weekend getaway. The Elise seems to be more of a driving tool.

 

Honestly. I can't believe that these things MSRP at 50k, geesh. I would never pay 50K for a totally stripped out car with a Toyota engine. I'm sure it is very fun, but a 50K price tag? No.

As for maintainance, I'm sure it is inexpensive. Insurance, I think not. I have really been thinking about getting an Elise as my next car and so far, the chances are becoming greater!

 

I think the Elise price tag is very much worth it. It is a very fun car. But if you're questioning the car's value because of what it lacks, then the car may not be for you, or you don't fully understand the idea behind the car and the marque.

It's too bad that the deprecetiation of the car is so awful. Bad news for those who are not fully commited to the car. It's somewhat expected, though. Many who wanted to back out of the car during the first couple years wanted to get rid of it quick. What better way to do so by setting the price low? And everything just went downhill from there.

The Exiges will probably experience something similar. A large number will probably flood the market once folks start picking up the Exige S.

On the upside... cheap used Elises will expose a lot of people to the brand and that is always good for Lotus.

The cars are rock solid. There's really nothing that can go wrong that will prevent you from driving the car. Japanese engine/tranny is pretty bullet proof. And the lack of electrical sophistication means you'll never have electrical problems. That only thing that'll really go wrong are things will fall off in the enterior. But that's minor in the grand scheme of things.

 

I have to think the prices are really going to level off around $28k. At $28k I think most of us would think very seriously about an Elise as a 3rd or 4th car. I don't think I'd be concerned picking one up in the $28k range. In 2 years you can't see an Elise with 20k miles going for $22-24k??? At that price it opens it up to a whole new group of buyers the $28k-22k depreciation feels a heck of a lot better.

 

Wow, a lot of assumptions made based on the listing of one car. I just sold mine for $37k, and that was a very fair price. I purchased it in Nov 2004.

The car shown is about $6k below what is typical for a used Elise. It is certainly a great price, but at what cost?

 

Except that Lotus did do some modifications to the engine in house. It is these and other Lotus parts that's hard to get, at least that's how I understood it. Now, if Toyota owns Lotus, that would be an entirely different story

 

I think wholesale on the Elise right now is closer to $28-30K for a non-hardtop.

 

One of the things I like most about my Elise is that it IS STRIPPED OUT. It's the same reason I like the 360 CS.

You're not paying $50k for cup holders and cruise control in the Elise. You're paying $50k for a Lotus with its legendary handling. It isn't a car you drive, it is a driving machine you WEAR.

Mike

 

Could you vague that up a bit. Blue book? Edmunds? Auction? NADA? What option packages? Which paint? How many miles? Condition? History? That is a blanket statement based on nothing. What is your source?

Actually, if you had a dealer licence, and could find one at auction, you might pay that. I've heard of a few guys taking $32k cash for a low mileage car. Like I said, fair and resonable price for both parties is about $35k for a nice car with options and documentation. Elisetalk.com is a good barometer for real world pricing.

I'm not trying to defend the car, because I really don't care, but an Elise for $29k is sure to have some sort of story. Seriously, you find one car on autotrader and the bottom has fallen out of the Elise market. It may still, but just not yet.

 

Here are Manheim auction results for the Elise recently. Anything under 30k would be a steal at this time. Add 10% to the below #'s for retail.


10/05/06 FRDKBURG Regular $30,000 12,272 Below BLUE 4G No
09/28/06 NORTHSTR Regular $32,500 2,586 Below YELLOW 4G 6 Yes
09/21/06 MANHEIM Regular $32,700 2,800 Below RED 4G Yes
09/08/06 NEVADA Regular $32,750 10,109 Below ORANGE 4G 6 No
09/07/06 NEVADA Regular $36,000 364 Avg RED 4G 6 Yes
08/17/06 GTR TMPA Regular $33,500 9,057 Avg NONE 4G Yes

 

For sure.... It's like when someone posts a 360 for 50k and everyone thinks it is legit.

$35k is the retail market for these right now. Nobody just gives away money like that...

 

Thanks for the Manheim numbers. I was talking to a dealer and he threw out the $28-30k for a trade-in. Manheim and Galves are the only true numbers for wholesale prices.

As far as the Elise Market, lets see what the October and November Auctions show. It's really sad that Lotus got so greedy with the car and imported about twice as many cars as they should have for the US market and now with them voiding warranties left and right (a rev limited voids the warranty) they are killing the market further. Still a sweet ride.

 

Im telling you right now if those cars conutue to keep droping in value as well as price, pretty soon you might be seing Elise based Diablo replica's. lol.

 

I'm not aware of warranties being voided "left and right."

Mike

 

I guess anyone buying an Elise should pay for an ECU dump and no agressive driving....


http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28269


http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22747&highlight=voided

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22313&page=2

 

Yes. I've been over at E-talk for a long time. I've heard of isolated cases but not what I would characterize as "left and right."

Mike

 

I'm just shocked Lotus is playing hardball when this is an enthusists car.... Voiding warranty for a few standing starts... "definition of a standing start, and here's what he said: 3,000 RPMs with wheel spin, and more than 3,000 RPM continuing while the car starts moving. "


This post says it all


This is information I learned in discussion with an east coast rep for Lotus USA. Everything I type here is from my memory, and accurate and complete to the best of my ability.

The East coast rep never got back to me on my warranty, so I have to assume it'll stay voided. I'm not going to name names, but many of you have a good idea who I had this conversation with.

First off, only the power train warranty is gone. The rest of the car is still under warranty, with a caveat: if I messed with it, it's no longer covered. For example, my seat belt system is no longer covered because I added the harness bar. Brakes-on me since I changed pads. Sway bar, etc-gone. That's fine. I messed with those things, so I expect that to be true. No real news there.

Now comes the not so good stuff:

1) According to him, ANY revs higher than 8500 are a cause for warranty voiding on the power train. He said that the electronic system will not allow any Elise to reach RPMs higher than 8500, and any higher rev recording was from a mechanical input error (abuse) from the driver. No exceptions.

According to our poll, 39 people have seen their ECU dumps. Many of those were their 1000 mile checkup dumps where they likely took it easy on the car, so the results could be a lot worse if we all had a current dump. 26 of the 39 had revs greater than 8500. Those people would likely not have their powertrains covered under warranty. Do I think the rep is full of ****? Uh huh. Lotus owners are probably on the more sophisticated end on the car owner spectrum. For him to tell us that 2/3rds of Elise owners missed a shift or otherwise made a driver error is nonsensical at best; absurd is a better word.

2) According to him, an ECU dump recording more than 5 standing starts was cause for powertrain warranty voiding. I asked him if mileage was factored in, i.e. a car with 50,000 miles would be allowed more standing starts than a car with 500, and he side-stepped the question by saying they would look perhaps at when the standing starts occurred. I don't think the engine running times are recorded for a standing start (I'm certain it's not), but he told me 21 standing starts in 22,000 miles was abuse. I got the impression that 21 standing starts in 150,000 miles would be considered abuse, too.

I asked for a definition of a standing start, and here's what he said: 3,000 RPMs with wheel spin, and more than 3,000 RPM continuing while the car starts moving. He was going to verify with Hethel, but I never heard back. So it doesn't take a 7K or 5K launch, only a 3K launch with spin and movement while staying in the throttle. I would imagine starting at a light on ice could easily produce a standing start.

Six of our 39 respondents definitely have already voided their warranties under these assumptions. Remember you may have 2-3 standing starts at 1000 miles, but if you add a few more later, you fall into this category.

3) The rep told me that he believed I was still responsible for my shifter breaking, and that every broken shifter was a result of driver abuse despite the recall. This infuriated me! How could so many of us drivers be considered "abusive"? He mentioned that there were no shifter recalls in any other country, but I believe we are the only ones to get this particular shifter. I could be wrong. In any case, if you market to people expecting a reliable part, and in their use it is not reliable, you can't fault all of your customers. He is doing exactly that. So all you broken shifter folks are at fault according to him. I mentioned the metal fatigue but he wouldn't believe that was the cause.

4) The rep mentioned that he knew I had changed my own tranny fluid and oil, and asked me what I used. When I told him about the oil he was quiet. But he DID give me specs for the trany fluid, and insinuated that I might have voided my warranty with sub-par fluid. I went back with his specs and reviewed my fluid, For what it's worth, Mobil One 75W-90 Synthetic meets all the specs he cited, which included API GL5. He somewhat denegrated the Redline tranny fluid. I do not know if it meets specs or not.

5) I asked the rep about taking your car on the track, any track, and he said he had no problem with it. He said he would never consider writing down VINs, for example, but if one of those cars that was tracked came in with a drivetrain warranty issue and had revs greater than 8500 or 5 standing starts, it would likely not be covered. So the point is, I guess, if you track your car make sure you baby it. No running up over 8500 RPMs, and gentle launches. Wow, driving excitement.

6) He said that forums like this one were bad for the manufacturer because people jump the gun on problems posted and expect their service dealers to take a look. He said he and others at Lotus USA rarely, if ever, read this forum because it is so negative and delivers bad information. He also said that the biggest problem is people on this forum think they know more than Lotus engineers, and they deliver a lot of bad information to other owners. He also said Lotus folks in Hethel do not read the forum either.

7) The rep did not understand what autoxing was. He thought he did, and said "Oh yeah, that's really hard on the car and drivetrain." When I disagreed, he asked me to walk him through a run. I think he was surprised to learn it generally involves a short shift just past the starting line and then a one minute run in 2nd gear with no further shifting. I told him to go to an autox and see it for himself. I don't think that will happen.

This paragraph represents my personal opinions: I think part of the problem the rep had with this site is that we cost Lotus USA money because more people find out they have a warrantied problem and get it fixed. Would we all have new shifters if we couldn't have communicated with each other, or would we have had to pay for them ourselves due to our "abuse"? What about other issues? Lotus USA does not want to shell out warranty repairs because it hurts profit, and is looking for every way to avoid making good on warranties. They have no understanding that this stance might doom Lotus in the USA. I've heard Arnie recently was courted by Lotus, but told them what he thought was wrong with this approach, and they decided not to reunite. Arnie is smart to stay away at this juncture. Again, my opinion, but the US market is teetering right now. One or two more false moves and the party is over. Pity.

 

Yes, I'm quite familiar with that story / thread over at e-talk. It is one person's story, so I take it for what it's worth. But, it's hardly an epidemic or "left and right."

Mike