IS THIS REAL 250GTO

Yes... Someone's signature quotes Phil Hill and that quote relates to this; I just can't remember the quote...

 

Some will say "Being used as intended."
Other's will say "Less so than before the crash"

 

Yes, I know because I was there!

I'm not gonna get into the details other than to say the vintage guys and gals were not doing parade laps. Mt. Tremblant has a really cool straight that feeds into a sharp right and then into a sharp left up the hill followed by a blind left under a bridge at the top of the hill. Really cool, and you can carry a lot of speed into these turns.

Remember, these are very light cars (particularly by today's standards), with absolutely no power steering or assist, no traction control, and non-abs brakes that are nowhere near today's stoppers. The pre-war Maser with the scissors jack suspension was really a hoot to watch!

Even with all this, the vintage lap times were not that far off the Challenge cars. Ah, the few, the proud, the truly demented!

Dale

 

At least it can be repaired, albeit at a very high price.

 

Damage doesn't look as bad as that 250LM wreck. Nice to see it being used, but pushing the car to its limits (if that was the cause), may be a little too much imo.

 

Well, IMNSHO, I'm glad that you don't own one of these cars. Cause then us holi poli would never get to see them run in anger. At Mt. Tremblant, I went around to all the owners and thanked them for bringing their cars out. You know, they don't need to.

Dale

 

If it costs $300,000 to repair a $15,000,000 car then it's really no big deal. It amounts to a $1,000 repair on an F430. (I personally doubt that the damage will take that much to repair).
Therein lies the beauty and rationale for tracking these exquisite cars. The relative cost to keep them pristine is a very small percentage of their real market value.

 

Dale

Trust me on this. What you saw had NOTHING to do with how these cars were driven on the day. If you saw how these cars were driven in the rain at SPA that memory would burn so bright that you would never confuse it with what you saw.

I think it's a wank to push these cars to the point of pranging them.
I realize that's simply my opinion but IMO a part of that GTO is gone forever.

As Sam said "If you want to see where the iron crosses grow you have to go to the place where more enter than return."

 

A lot of these cars (most?) have been raced, damaged and repaired here and there over the course of time by various folks. Can't be many, if any, unmolested, zero-mile, factory-fresh time capsules. Bidness as usual?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd drive it. I don't ever plan to own a car and keep it in a musuem, garage, or living room just to watch it.

I feel that it's just a big piece of history that should avoid large risks of danger. Driving parade laps with other classics and at a moderate pace is not a problem for me. But going balls-to-the-wall in something like this is just wrong imo. History is not owned by one person. It's to share for everyone.

What if all GTOs were raced at some historic event in the future and all of the owners pushed them hard, got into a huge wreck, caught fire, and everything gone? Would you be okay with it because you saw it in person like it would've been 40 years ago? Nothing the new owners will do can add to the history that the car made 40+ years ago. The new owners can only destroy that.

Tread carefully with ownership of these cars. As in an old thread, a chassis can wear out where it drives nothign like the old car when young so why put it through the old paces?

 

my soul hurts!

 

Says a man whose 330 was once totally destroyed at one time, as far as I recall (I could be mistaken, of course, I might have the wrong story/SN)?

 

0846. Yes it was burned to the ground. Ask Jim for the link to the pdf. on the restoration. I read it the night before seeing the P4/5, and it was an amazing read.

Peter Hatch

 

this is ed davies´car 3705GT. when did the accident happen - 2006? was ed davies at the wheel ? i saw the car at moroso - 2003 and 2004. its the le mans gt-class winner 1962.

 

All true but 0846 was damaged at Le Mans while being driven by Amon and Nino, scrapped by Ferrari, and it's chassis was thrown in the garbage. My Ford MK-IV was damaged at Le Mans the same year still managing to come in 4th OA. (Some of that damage is still visible today). That is history. If I stuff J6/ 0846/ SL 71-32/ J 446/0854/002C/ P 4/5/DV32 it's a bit different.

I use all of my cars. I subject them to some risk by using them. I try to keep that risk to a level that I feel is fair to future generations.

I understand that other's feel differently.

 

Some might even argue that your behavior is far riskier given all the unknown variables on the open road.

I say cheers to everyone who doesn't keep their treasures locked in a garage to be wiped off with a diaper every now and then.

>8^)
ER

 

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

 

Sadly a 275 crashed right in front of me in the Ferrari Classic Challenge at Snetterton Uk on saturday, it made me feel sick watching it happen
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Don't you think that this is a bit harsh, Jim? After all, nobody is pretending that historical racing is anything like it was back in the day. Number one, we're dealing with amateur drivers. Number two, the overriding concern is the safety of the drivers. Cars can always be fixed. Sometimes, people can't. Thus, every driver understands that this is not real 10/10s racing.

However, anytime you put a wheel on the race track, you are accepting the risks that go along with it. As you know better than I, these are very unforgiving cars, particularly compared to today's cars. They were the best in the world back in their day, but not today.

So despite everybody's best efforts, ka ka happens. It just so happens that the spot where this car got off at Mt. Tremblant is one of the few places where there not much run out before you hit a wall. I saw at least two Challenge cars bite it at the same spot.

I'll admit that I'm being selfish here. No, I wasn't at Spa or Le Mans or where ever when these cars ran in true battle. Sorry to say, but there were no Ferraris running around Pensacola Florida during the mid-60s. (Although, there was one guy who drove a 904.) In fact, if it had not been for ABC WWOS, I would have never even heard of Le Mans.

Long story short, seeing these cars run at 7/10s during Historic races is all I'm ever going to see. I for one really appreciate that there are a few owners who are willilng to do this, even if it means an occasional boo boo.

Besides, is there even one 250 GTO that has never been wreaked at least once? I'm serious here. I'd love to know the answer.

Dale

 

If they think those little bumps on that GTO will cost $300,000 to fix, I'll do it for $295,000!

Stuff happens, whether cars are driven hard or not - some drivers run out of talent sooner than others. At Goodwood there are a lot of professional and ex-professional drivers, not to mention some who should have made it big but didn't (like Peter Hardman, who was a contempory of Damon Hill in F3), but if guys like Carlos Monteverde didn't enter his cars, either for himself or guest drivers, I wouldn't get to see them.

OK, he's shunted his 250LM at Oporto AND Goodwood, and this year he planted his 750M and bumped his 206S, but they'll be repaired. He did this to his 250TR at Silverstone in 1998:

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7227/coys25798lb0.jpg

......actually, not his fault, as he slowed when the car in front spun in a cloud of smoke and the 250SWB didn't see him............but it's been fixed.

It's all down to the individual owner - better used than rotting in a lockup.

Paul M

 

Having seen Lorenzo die on the day and years later a guy from Australia (who also cut off the leg of a Marshall) not on the day I still think those deaths were different. One was chasing Iron Crosses and one was over his head, trying to impress God Knows Who in a Lotus F1 car that never was a contender.

My friend Macca was there that day and it was a sad one.

In fairness the Ferrari Historic Challenge is very Gentlemanly compared to how they do it across the pond and prangs are rarer.

 

Something like: if it's worth driving (or racing?), then it's worth fixing.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

That must have been harrowing,the footage gives me shudders..

I got "Grand Prix" on DVD recently (a must) ,Bandini brought Frankenhiemer (looking for a crashscene location)to that very spot,saying it was the most dangerous part of the track ,the year before...

 

What's really sad is that it was the downdraft from the ABC TV camera Helicopter that set him on fire and fanned the flames.