*video* F430 Spider @ Sebring versus C6 Z06, Gt3, etc. | FerrariChat
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*video* F430 Spider @ Sebring versus C6 Z06, Gt3, etc.

Discussion in '360/430' started by Blocktrader, Oct 10, 2006.

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  1. Blocktrader

    Blocktrader Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    204
    Boca Raton
    Full Name:
    Mike R.
    #1 Blocktrader, Oct 10, 2006
    I realized in another thread I haven't posted these yet. These are from a track day at Sebring a couple weeks back. The car is a 430 Spider.

    This was my first event with Pilot sport Cup tires. I had previously run on Pzero Corsas. The Pilot Cups definitely provide more grip. There was probably a 3 second difference between the two tires. My car came with steel brakes and they are definitely the weak link at the track. I run Pagid blue pads, but the brakes are heating up and my pedal is getting low. That said, the steels are probably adequate for most people.

    The Z06 in the video was running Pilot Cups as well. He had 345s on the rear and it really shows the way he was able to get a jump on the corner exits to the longer straights. With the better tires the 430 can hang in there, but the Z06 definitely appears to have an advantage. Of course we were running about 500lbs heavier, but I still think the Z06 would have the edge.

    The passenger I had in the Z06 video was on track for the first time ever. What a first experience for him, going out in a Ferrari no less. That's the reason for his exuberance. :)

    I will post a couple pics later, meanwhile here are the videos (they are big, but high quality):

    Running with a C6 Z06--Right Click "save as"
    Running with GT3 etc. (including rear view)---Right Click "save as"
     
  2. club0

    club0 Formula Junior

    Feb 22, 2004
    459
    Helsinki, Finland
    #2 club0, Oct 10, 2006
    Thanks man, great videos, very good quality!
     
  3. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
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    Gary B.
    #3 Gary(SF), Oct 10, 2006
    Of course I have absolutely no knowledge of the driving skill of either you or the Vette driver (he may be a pro driver messing around on a day off for all I know), but from what I've seen that's the big difference in HPDE lap times. I have some SCCA experience, but I'm 63 and definitely don't want to wad my 430 up at a track day, and I was lapping 5sec/lap faster than a Ford GT at Sears Point last Friday. I would imagine I'm another 5 sec off the potential of the 430. My point is although these videos are great fun to watch, I wouldn't make any definitive performance evaluations from them.

    Gary
     
  4. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
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    Gary B.
    #4 Gary(SF), Oct 10, 2006
    What size PSCs? I have never found a suitable fitment.

    Gary
     
  5. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    Nov 5, 2003
    11,560
    san diego/charlotte
    #5 ferraripete, Oct 10, 2006
    the line being driven by mike r. is solid. i know this as i have lots of time at sebring from the imsa firehawk days . mike r. actually drives a more tidy line that the vette driver in several segments.

    i would also venture a guess that mike being a knee dragger ain't skeered of running a wheel or two hard across the gator turds at sebring...he looks pretty quick!

    thank you for the videos.

    pcb
     
  6. Blocktrader

    Blocktrader Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    204
    Boca Raton
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    Mike R.
    #6 Blocktrader, Oct 11, 2006
    Gary, what ferraripete said is correct. The vette is not gaining anything due to driver difference. What you said is right as well though. The driver is usually the difference. In this case it happens that two of the faster guys there were in the cars.

    That said, I could pick up several seconds with a couple things. Probably the biggest thing I could do is to drive the car harder and further into the corners (deeper, harder braking) The problem here is that I could only do it for maybe a lap and the brake pedal gets real low. If I had CCB's I wouldn't have this problem and could pick up probably 2 or 3 seconds. This is a limit of my car though, and is no different than it having alot of weight. Speaking of which, I don't know if you caught that mine is a spider. It weighs almost exactly 3400 lbs with fuel. Add me and the passenger and our on track weight was just under 3800 lbs. Now obviously I didn't weigh this Z06, but going by published numbers and what I have seen from other Corvette owners the Z should be around 3150 with fuel. add the driver and helmet and it is around 3350. That means we had about a 450 lb weight disadvantage. A coupe with no passenger could easily run 400 Lbs lighter than we were.

    You are right though. Performance differences from these kind of videos should be taken with a grain of salt. It's really hard to tell what is driver and what is car. I can say one thing though. Probably attributable to the larger tires and lower weight being carried in the rear, the Z06 seemed able to put the power down much better on corner exits and get a head start down the straight.
     
  7. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
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    #7 Gary(SF), Oct 11, 2006
    Yes, I definitely noticed you were driving a Spider, but again I was making general comments that would apply to any car and driver combo. No criticism intended, just a generality.

    What size Sport Cups are you running? Stock wheels?

    BTW, I've had absolutely no brake issues with my iron brakes. It's probably the difference between tracks, I always run at Sears Point (Infineon) and it is not particularly hard on brakes. I've been using Ferodo DS2500 pads and stock fluid. Have you considered changing to Motul 600 fluid? Might be worth a try. If that doesn't help, there's always Girodisc, a much cheaper solution than carbon brakes.

    Gary
     
  8. Martin Meade

    Martin Meade Karting
    BANNED

    Oct 25, 2004
    229
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    #8 Martin Meade, Oct 11, 2006
    Thanks for the plug Gary! I would stepup one from DS2500 though for this level of driving and probably go to the Porterfield R4 pads. Work great and are easier on rotors than Pagid Blue. The long pedal is due to fluid boiling. Definately upgrade to Motul RBF600 or CastrolSRF. Our titanium pad shields also help keep heat from getting into the calipers and fluid. They also have the added benefit of helping seals and dust boots live longer.

    Carbon is mighty expensive to purchase, we are a step in between.

    Martin
     
  9. RAllen

    RAllen Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2006
    445
    Rogue Valley, Oregon
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    Richard Allen
    #9 RAllen, Oct 11, 2006
    As I wrote in the CCB thread (that's the one you mention, right) .... the vids are well worth the download time.

    Based on my experience as a passenger w/one of the fastest Instructors at PIR (PDX) who drives a Z06, your vids show exactly what I would have expected given what you've written in re skills, set-up, etc.

    I have been struggling w/getting the power down coming out of the corners. Not to mention finding repeatable braking ref points (specially trail braking refs).

    I guess it's the "new car" jitters. I would be very embarrassed if I trashed the F430. There not as commonly available as Z06s for example. <big G>

    Regards,

    Richard.
     
  10. RAllen

    RAllen Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2006
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    #10 RAllen, Oct 11, 2006
    Hi Gary.

    Do you plan to attend the FofSF HPDE on Nov 18th? It'd be very helpful to have someone who knows the track take me around for a few laps.

    Alessandro placed me on the "waiting list." I sure hope I can get in.

    Regards,

    Richard.
     
  11. RAllen

    RAllen Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2006
    445
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    Richard Allen
    #11 RAllen, Oct 11, 2006
    Although I subscribe to the "If you can't afford the maintenance ..." school of thought, I would love to see the aftermarket provide pads for Ferrari CCBs.

    Your thoughts?

    Regards,

    Richard.
     
  12. icon

    icon Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2006
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    jeff
    #12 icon, Oct 11, 2006
    nice vid blocktrader!
    jeff
     
  13. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
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    #13 Gary(SF), Oct 11, 2006
    That's at Thunderhill, right? I'm spoiled and only go to Sears Point (Infineon). THill means an overnight for me, and I am not enchanted with the area, altho the track is nice. Sears is still my favorite.

    Gary
     
  14. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
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    #14 Gary(SF), Oct 11, 2006
    Are the R4's streetable? The DS2500s are very much streetable, yet I have had no fade on the track.

    Gary
     
  15. Blocktrader

    Blocktrader Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
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    Boca Raton
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    Mike R.
    #15 Blocktrader, Oct 11, 2006
    Gary, the tires are on OZ Superleggaras. I really like the OZs. They are about as light as the CS wheels even though they are bigger. They are strong. They also look better for a track wheel IMO.

    Martin, I wasn't aware there were shims out there. I will definitely be calling you. I am due for new pads as well. I guess I will try the R4's.
     
  16. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    Nov 5, 2003
    11,560
    san diego/charlotte
    #16 ferraripete, Oct 11, 2006
    yes the r-4 friction material compound is very streetable and will work best w/ a steel rotor as the brake compound will be very aggressive w/ respect to rotor wear w/ ductile iron rotors.
     
  17. RAllen

    RAllen Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2006
    445
    Rogue Valley, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Richard Allen
    #17 RAllen, Oct 11, 2006
    Nope, Sears.

    But if you're not already signed up w/Ferrari of San Francisco it might be tough to get in.

    Regards,

    Richard.
     
  18. BillCahill, Seattle WA

    BillCahill, Seattle WA Rookie

    Jul 15, 2006
    6
    #18 BillCahill, Seattle WA, Oct 12, 2006
    I didn't watch the entire vid, but why did the GT3 have such a hard time with the GT3 ?
     
  19. Martin Meade

    Martin Meade Karting
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    Oct 25, 2004
    229
    B'ham, WA
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    Martin Meade
    #19 Martin Meade, Oct 12, 2006
     
  20. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
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    #20 Gary(SF), Oct 12, 2006
    I've had great luck with them, admittedly I only run at Infineon, a track that is not too hard on brakes. And in my experience, they dust less than stock, but do give an occassional squeal at slow speeds and light braking. Hard to beat at $230 for the whole car.

    Gary
     
  21. RAllen

    RAllen Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2006
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    Richard Allen
    #21 RAllen, Oct 12, 2006
    IMHO .... one word .... weight.

    But I don't presume to speak for Blocktrader. ;-)

    Regards,

    Richard.
     
  22. BillCahill, Seattle WA

    BillCahill, Seattle WA Rookie

    Jul 15, 2006
    6
    #22 BillCahill, Seattle WA, Oct 12, 2006
    Good point...
     
  23. Blocktrader

    Blocktrader Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    204
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    Mike R.
    #23 Blocktrader, Oct 12, 2006
    huh? there was only one GT3. If you mean the 430 I was just following to get video. We were part throttle down most straights. Once past we left him.

    Edit: I just realized I never explained this. The Porsche driver was a friend of mine. I followed him to get the video and give him driving feedback later. I passed the Porsche halfway through the video.
     
  24. BillCahill, Seattle WA

    BillCahill, Seattle WA Rookie

    Jul 15, 2006
    6
    #24 BillCahill, Seattle WA, Oct 12, 2006
    Just saw that, I watched 4 minutes of the vid and was wondering...

    You blew by him in the middle of that vid, my mistake.
     
  25. RAllen

    RAllen Formula Junior

    Aug 27, 2006
    445
    Rogue Valley, Oregon
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    Richard Allen
    #25 RAllen, Oct 13, 2006
    It was hard to tell from the vid. But I did notice that once you caught up to the Corvette you seemed to pick up the pace.

    I'd love to see a vid showing your work on the controls. We'd learn a lot from that.

    Randy of chasecam.com phoned me yesterday afternoon. He's sending me part of my camera gear order. Lord willing I shall have some vids for you all after my planned Oct 18th HPDE.

    But I doubt they'll be as good quality as yours Blocktrader. I don't know much about video formatting/editing.

    Regards,

    Richard.
     
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