IS THIS REAL 250GTO

Ive got pics of one that was crashed earlier in the 2005 Ferrari Challenege events. It came to RA with the metal shaped nose riveted on. Im sure he had it fixed after the series, I believe he contiued because he was in the hunt for the points lead.

Car #22

 

My eyes hurt............... Yoweee!!!

 

OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That pic of the 250TR honestly almost made me throw up! I quite literally gagged a couple of times right in front of my computer........what a horrible picture.

Even thought that hurt more than any automotive pic I've ever seen I also am thankful for the owners that bring these cars out. I was lucky enough to attend the Monterey Historic Races in "04 and see the majority of existing GTO's run on the track it was beautiful. My only regret was that I was so busy trying to take pics that I myself missed most of the action, I was just so excited that I wanted to record every second of it.

 

with you 110%

 

Agreed.

Interesting story........

My friend owns the Ford GT40 that won LeMans back in 1966 (finished 1st and was followed by the other two GT40s in 2nd and 3rd). Anyway, he still has been known to put the car out on the track and run it. Last time he was at Road America with it during the races, he was approached afterward by a guy who came up with clenched fists and an angry scowl. The guy started telling him how wrong he was for taking that car out on the track like that and how that car belonged in a museum.

I guess my friend thought the guy was actually about to take a swing. That's how bothered he was by seeing the car going around the track.

Anyway, my point is, I applaud my friend and all like him for taking a car out and giving the rest of us a taste of what that car looked and sounded like. He does this with all of his cars and he has a BUNCH of famous cars that I otherwise would only read about in books.

Interesting how people can be so polarized on a topic.

For example, one guy earlier was saying how he was gagging over the pic of the wrecked 250. And it didn't even phase me. Not that I like seeing those things, but I realize it is just a great car and my first thought was, "Sucks, but kudos to him for taking it out and giving her. At least the car got wrecked doing what it was meant to do rather than having someone scratch it in a museum!!!"

Neither views are right or wrong. Just different. Just my thoughts......

 

If you're speaking about George he only demonstrates 1046 he doesn't "race" it. He also stopped "racing" J4 a long time ago and has since sold it on.

As you can see I also demonstrate my cars as well, but I don't "race" them.
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I guess for me, I like seeing the cars driven as the man who built them intended. So every time I drive my 308, I make sure I at least once along the way wind out in a few gears somewhere, take a corner faster than necessary.

You see movies or film footage from WW2, you hear these sceaming airplanes flying overhead, P-51's paired up, flying at low lever tree top height, making these awesome sounds of speed. Today you go to an airshow, and you see P-51's flying slow. They putter around and come by again, really s l o w. This is because the FAA has a speed limit of 250 knots max below 10,000 feet. Seeing them fly around that slow is like my ride in a TR where the owner never allowed the motor to turn past 2500 RPM, very painful. I would almost rather been home watching Bugs Bunny and eating pop corn.

I do believe these cars are magical, they do invoke emotion, they are special. I do believe we owe it to the people of the future to preserve these cars. But they are only magical as long as they echo thier reality. Once you stop allowing them to scream, once you stop letting them run like wild animals, they will be nothing more than stone, nothing but blank faced statues in a park forever silenced. And then it will not matter anymore how real they are to anyone, they will be dead. When your great grandson walks through the dusty museum of tomorrow and tries to explian to your great great grandchildren how magical these machines were, will his words will fall on deaf ears? The metal and fabric they are made of is nothing but transient matter, is it not? The magical life we crave from them, the names they shout as they flash past, isnt that thier essence? One tiny bit of metal from the remains, added to a new machine, isnt that enough to make the new machine alive again? Its not the body, really, is it? Isnt it really about the soul? I may perhaps sound a bit to passionate here, but when you cry to save these machines from certain harm, listen to YOUR own passion.

I have twice now witnessed an antique car run. For 14 years they have taken 1914 and older cars, and driven them from New London Minnesota, to New Brighton Minnesota. Its about 100 odd miles. Its a hard trip and takes most of a day. They drive curved dash Oldsmobiles, I seen a 1902 French car, a 1900 International, Old Stanley Steamers, there was a 1904 Indian motorcycle. It ran, it was ridden. These cars are running about as fast today as they ever did when new with the better roads we have. But they break. OMG, these guys put hardware store bolts on them? They replace parts with new peices that are handmade? They solder tanks with new lead? Where will this madness end? Sooner or later, if they keep this up, the original car will be lost. I don't care. Seeing them run just as they did is worth it. The authenticity is there, with the oil and steam and smoke, and people out with open tool boxes making them keep running to get to their destination. If the car burned to the ground, at least it got to putter down the road once more and show itself to someone. Thats better than rotting away in some museum somewhere. If your going to stifle these cars at all, then you might as well just park them. Because anything less than thier full capability, is almost worse than nothing.

 

"If your going to stifle these cars at all, then you might as well just park them. Because anything less than thier full capability, is almost worse than nothing."

As they were on the day?

Transported in open trailers?

Assembled with no regard to dissimilar metal which immediately begins to corrode?

Put away wet?

When returned to the pits with the water gauge pegged had a screw driver put through the gauge and sent back out with the admonition:

When it stops it's over heating! Get back out there you *****.

Over reverred?

Run low on oil?

Attempted to be driven back to the pits on flat tires even if it meant the car caught on fire?

Had their starter motors fixed with a hammer?

I could go on...

 

That's pretty much it...

 

In other words: No regard to budget!

Or leave it for a barn Find.

 

I was so grateful to see GTO's and SWB's racing hard at the Revival this year. My view is that the owners have an obligation to race the cars. Otherwise new generations will never hear the sounds and will only look at grainy black and white photos in musty books. The cars can be repaired. I think more of the soul of the car dies under a dust cover than being repaired from a racing incident. For me, I know that my skill level is below what it would need to be to race a treasure. I race new cars that are easy to repair and when my skill level improves I dream that I will have the chance to race a treasure

 

" My view is that the owners have an obligation to race the cars"

Obligation?

 

Watch video tape if you want to see and hear the cars going flat out and possibly wrecking. Be thankful these owners bring out these priceless (imo) works of art and at least drive them. No one is obliged to do anything with ownership of these cars. They can do as they please.

 

This thread belongs in the Vintage section.

 

That I agree with.

 

My 2¢. Peter Markowski has a chunk of original GTO front corner sheetmetal (including the headlight opening) hanging on his wall. Francois Sicard has various interesting 'garden ornaments' from even serial numbered cars. All of these pieces were replaced during restorations - if it's still original, like manny's 0052 then it's a museum piece. If it's restored, they can always re-restore it. Which I think was Phil Hill's point.
Art S.

PS. Yes, this thread belongs in Vintage, that's where all the nuts are

 

I would not race a vintage Ferrari. Like Jim, I would drive them. I would show them. I would not drive them 100% and certainly not race them. You can enjoy the car without beating the piss out of it; and at least there is a greater chance that someone can still enjoy it 40 years from now

 

I think:give them a good stretch maybe,but don't thrash/trash them,there's plenty of tracks where a little drifting can be experienced in a relatively safe envirement,without going balls out,imho.

While on the subject,this is were good replicas could be of use,though mixing them with the real thing (as being proposed be the FIA iirc) could make things worse!

 

Some people race 'em.

Some people store 'em.

Sometimes race cars become garage queens.

Sometimes garage queens become race cars.

If we ever move away from internal combustion, then the universe of car junkies will shrink.

When you go to a museum, they don't show every gun that was used at Waterloo - the just show you one. When racing is recapped historically, far into the future, they will just show a couple of cars.

I love to see the cars cared for, and I love to see them raced. I'm thankful there are cars in museums that I can see, and I'm even more thankful that I can go to Monterey and see some of the greatest and most beautiful racing machines ever built put through their paces.

Let's face it, too - at Monterey - some owners drive to win, some drive for fun, and some drive demonstration laps (in their race group).

If I had a vintage Ferrari of historical significance, I would take to it to Laguna Seca, Lime Rock, etc - and I would drive it well within my limits, but the tires would be squealing...

 

I know. I went back and could see where the confusion came from. Regardless, his "demonstrations" are greatly appreciated by many. And seeing his treasures at his place can't be beat. I only wish that, for a few days, I could be back in Wisconsin on the drive he has going next weekend.

Kudos to you Napolis for bringing that gem out. There is no shame in driving 6/10ths. It is driving at 0/10ths that just feels wrong to me!!! ;-)

That is one AWESOME car.........

Have you seen his newest car??? I'll PM you.......

 

Why am I reminded of Elaine eating a piece of Royal wedding cake? Can't you just squirt some Redi Whip on the bite?

For cars, when the dents have historical significance it's time to park them. But if they're just run of the mill dents, might as well add a little more history to them every now and then, you know?

Ken

 

I think:give them a good stretch maybe,but don't thrash/trash them,there's plenty of tracks where a little drifting can be experienced in a relatively safe envirement,without going balls out,imho.

While on the subject,this is were good replicas could be of use,though mixing them with the real thing (as being proposed be the FIA iirc) could make things worse!

I totally agree with the above comment by C'one. Ballance is the key, and the line between as raced and recreated & replica's is a very fine one, the best way is to allow car's in the same spec/ state as original so NO big wheels/ breaks/ engines etc.

And leaving them all in museum's esp. private one's where nobody can see them is just as bad as racing and crashing them. So again I guess so long as some are raced and others carefully cared for we will be allright

IMHO

Timmy

 

the #22 car belongs to tom price. it is properly repaired now...saw it run last weekend.

 

Drive, yes. Track, yes. Race, no. 'Professionals are predictable, but the world is full of amatuers.'

 

I agree with Jim here. If you own one of these fine cars, it is your car. If you want to put it up on blocks on your front lawn, your choice. If you want to drive to work every day across the George Washington bridge, no problem. If you want to keep it in a climate controlled vault, you da man.

This is why I appreciate those owners who bring their cars out to the Historic Challenge races. They certainly are under no "obligation" to do so, are they? Plus, it is expensive. Does anyone want to guess how much it costs for Jim Fuchs to bring four cars to Canada and the entire Motion Products crew?

They do this knowing that they probably aren't going to win anything. In Jim's case, he was "racing" a tired BBLM against the Donahue Sunoco car.

However, Jim and the other guys and gals were not there to win a "race." They were doing this just to have fun and give the rest of us a glimpse of the old days.

For this, I thank them.

Dale