Engine Overhaul? | Page 7 | FerrariChat

Engine Overhaul?

Discussion in '348/355' started by Vitamin_J, Oct 10, 2006.

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  1. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    First off I have never said the issues posted never happen with these cars you are the one putting words in my mouth saying I have, they do have these issues I said it a few posts back and many other times here, your constant bashing of the 355s in threads like these infers ALL 355s will have this issue in the future and the poll results were not 25% as I recall more around 15%

    The case of this dealer here played out did not make any sense on what the results were in this thread, a car that has supposed very poor compression is running well with great power and does not burn oil, plus they did not do other tests to confirm the questionable results while trying to sell a $25k rebuild on the car, questionable at best.

    I think most 355 owners aka your potential customers are tired of the constant bashing of their cars along with the striking of fear in potential new owners steering them away, inferring that they are a POS made with poor materials and will have a $30k repair bill soon as stated here in every thread similar to this one.I surely would think twice before bringing my car in for service with someone that feels they are a POS.
     
  2. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    One more thought, instead of the constant negativity about 355 motors if you can document and prove your case for major design defects in the 355 motors why not put together a class action lawsuit against FNA for repair costs for all that have had these issues and those that could have them in the future.
     
  3. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
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  4. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    That is a ridiculous request...who has the time, resources and money to do so?
     
  5. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    How exactly is it rediculous?

    A lawyer could easily take the class action on a contingency fee and use testimony documented from mechanics of course paid as hired experts like any other civil action to prove the case of a manufacturers defect or lemon law on these motors, simple to me if true.
     
  6. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
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    Jun 9, 2004
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    Vern
    I would agree with Brian and Dave here that everyone should know what is going on with a paticular model, who better to know than guys that work with them all the time. That's what this site is about, information. It is unfortunate that such great car in all other ways has two bad points, altho correctable at a cost. After reading about 355s, over last couple of years, engine troubles it appears that it boils down to 2 problems and only 2, headers; poor materials used and valve guides; possibly the problem being poor factory install rather than materials (I think Brian made this comment a couple of yrs ago). The valve guide problem doesn't happen to all cars, none from what I have heard, after the factory changed the guide and the installation procedure. The header problem kept compounding itself by being replaced with the same bad part and continuing the demise of the engine. Nobody probably took the time to check for any damage done by this header problem, if the engine ran fine why would you? this was not a common problem in other engines. Until a few years ago you couldn't get an aftermarket header so you were stuck with replacement with the factory part. The cylinder problem is not caused by bad liners since all 348, 355 and 360s use the same liner (pt no.136875) its because the header problem can not be detected until its too late, in the mean time the ECUs are reading a goofy mixture via the 02 sensors and appearently richening the mixture enough to mess up the two outside valves and then to a point of washing the walls down inturn ruining the cylinders. Same with the valve guide problem it happens slowly and people don't expect that kind of problem in a modern engine(rightly so). I would bet that if you started with new short block or one that has good leak down/compression nos., did the valves and replaced the headers with after market pieces the 355 engine would last as long as any other Ferrari motor and never see a abnormal problem again other than poor maintain related stuff. As I said in an earlier post my engine was raced for 6500 miles(remember race miles not street miles). What is that in street miles, kinda like dogs years I suppose, had a valve job done to it(at 6000 miles) and I replaced a header at 7000 miles just as it was getting a hole thru it (assuming not long enough to do damage to the cylinders). I would not have known this if I hadn't read a post on here by Brian a couple of years ago about the header problem, thanks for the info! It now has 16500 (the last 10,000 are street miles) miles on it and the headers are ceramic coated with no shielding. My compression is around 200 in all cylinders and leak down in the range of 8% not fantastic numbers but a far cry from bad and with it's history of racing I think that is great. Regards, Vern
     
  7. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
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    excellent summary of the two probs.
     
  8. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    Its been common knowledge on this site and others for years 355s have header and valve problems, nothing new here. I knew about it before I bought my car and most potential buyers will know about it as well outside this and other sites if having a PPi done or researching the model.
     
  9. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
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    Yeah, and we would all get a buck fifty each for our troubles and the attorney would make out like a bandit. Hahaha
     
  10. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
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    Wasn't saying it was new just pointing out that they are fixable and probably not going to happen again if they are done correctly. Just trying to help some understand its not the end of the world for an otherwise fantastic car.
     
  11. pistole

    pistole Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2005
    771
    Malaysia

    thats true.

    but perhaps many do not know the consequences that follow from
    those faults.

    .
     
  12. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    Well if 10% of 355s had valves replaced for minimum $10000 thats $10,000,000 plus punitive damages alone, @ 33% the lawyer gets at least $3,000,000, now add up 5000 US 355s @ $10000 each which is cheap for the repair = $50,000,000 verdict, probably put FNA in bankruptcy or chapter 11
     
  13. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
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    Hahaha, Well there is a winter project for ya. Somehow I think the attorneys would come out better than that and I would probably be dead by the time the aurgument was over. Anyway good thought.
     
  14. MDshore348

    MDshore348 Formula 3

    Dec 24, 2004
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    they would just make 50 more enzos ...
     
  15. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    So how is this Brian's responsibility to undertake this task?
     
  16. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    He seems to have all the answers why 355 motors are failing, he has mentioned lawsuits with FNA before, its not his responsiblity but he could mention this option to his customers as it should be a slam dunk since Ferrari used such inferior parts in the motors according to him.
     
  17. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
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    Quote "I have only heard the 355 bashing on this site, my local F mechanics have not seen any issues with 355s and they have worked on a lot of them."

    I amnot trying to find fault with anyone. JP, you and I agree on how good these cars are.


    The argument turned a bit rediculas in my opinion. We all agree the car is incredible merits and is well worth owning.
    My last post reads like I am against any mods to the car which is far from the fact. Mods have to be done with long term effects in mind.
    One fact that is a constant in racing in the GT class (street based cars). Everything done to a highly devoloped street car is the ultimate exercise in compromise. Modifications to the engines (speaking about a very highly factory tuned and devoloped engine) in any manner (leaking manifolds or chipping) comes at a price. Short term gain vs long term reliabilty. Its a race engine builders delima, will it last long enough?
    Remember, if Ferrari could have squeezed another 30 HP out of that power plant with little loss in reliabilty you can bet they would have offered it at least in the Special Edition cars. The 355 is nothing but a race car with a lisc. plate and needs to be maintained to a high standard to get long lived reliabilty.
    That has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is only to explain some of my prior statements.

    The Net has been an incredible tool for all. Great advise and knowledge can be gained in a moment. Bad advise and rumor can spread equally fast. We all have to be very careful with jumping to conclutions as this is read by many. With each case, back ground history has to be known or no knowledge can be gained or conclutions made.
    Go back to the beginning of this thread. The third post has Brian asking for "numbers".

    Lord Kelvin Quote,
    "In physical science the first essential step in the direction of learning any subject is to find principles of numerical reckoning and practicable methods for measuring some quality connected with it. I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely in your thoughts advanced to the state of Science, whatever the matter may be." [PLA, vol. 1, "Electrical Units of Measurement", 1883-05-03]


    My hopes are that Jody will just require a valve job to put everything back in order and that Steve will still be able to get the car that meets his hopes. It is a shame that this wasnt caught while the engine was out.

    Dave
     
  18. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2002
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    That sums it up in two sentences.

    Incidentally, my car had the headers replaced and paid for by Ferrari NA as a good will gesture to the previous owner who buys his Ferraris new from one dealer. I have no records of the heads ever being off, and I have no indication that there is anything wrong with the guides.

    JM
     
  19. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
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    Hi JM, If they replaced the headers with factory parts, which I'm sure they did, I would change them. The factory part was never fixed, the same problem will keep occuring(melting tubes/holes etc.) there have been several reports about factory headers being replaced more than once for the same problem. Get a hold of Kevin at MVP use his or there are others out there just beware of the factory piece, it's crap. There appears to be no 2 ways about it, all 355s will need the factory headers replaced with an aftermarket part at some point in time. Regards, Vern
     
  20. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
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  21. Vitamin_J

    Vitamin_J Formula Junior

    Feb 4, 2006
    281
    Thanks for the tip WetPet... I ended the auction before it met reserve and the repair is in progress.

    I refunded the buyer's money in full and there are 170 posts on this topic. It isn't like I haven't fully disclosed the issue. What woud you like me to do? Is there a victim here? Is it you? Can you set me upon the path of righteousness? Or did you miss your soap opera today and are looking for some drama?

    Ask the people on this thread, whom I have had a personal conversation with, about the manner in which I have handled this. If anyone feels that I have wronged them or I have tried to cheat someon, please let me know.

    You tried with the first post to get attention, maybe your second will be more succesful. Or, maybe you have too much free time on your hands.
     
  22. BH1

    BH1 Formula Junior

    Nov 14, 2005
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    You seem very awfully concerned about this car..... like you have an axe to grind with Jody. I think if people knew the crap you have been up to since the inception of this thread you would be very quiet. Jody has shown that he is honorable and forthright about this car. He refunded the money, he posted the truth here in an attempt to get guidance on what was clearly a confusing issue, and he has never pointed the finger at FoW. Have you seen the leakdown results?? Do you know whether it needs a valve job or a complete rebuild?? Do you have direct facts to contradict anything Jody has said?? You should have solid answers to those questions before you go throwing a good guy under the bus.
     
  23. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
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    I'm pretty sure the auction was still going yesterday when i posted and the car was advertised as needing nothing. if i am wrong, i apologise if the auction had ended when i posted. I thought it was still on and still advertised as needing nothing. hence my post. if you have since ended the auction and are not advertising the car falsely, then you have done the right thing. did fow do the ppi right? was their advice to the buyer right? maybe you have answered this and i missed it. when did you end the auction? my second post was to clarify the first post as i didn't make it clear it was your car. no one seemed to notice. as far as the drama and my time go, that has nothing to do with it. I will point out cars advertised falsly or people starting bs threads whenever i see them. nothing personal, i don't even know you. if i am in error in any of my statements here or elsewhere, please point them out and i will retract them and apologize. although typing my thoughts is not my strong suit, i am not trying to start a fight.


     
  24. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
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    i was awfully concerned about the car. i have no axe to grind with jody. i don't think i have even met him. if i did at some event i don't remember. if you know of any crap i have been up to please enlighten us. i don't need to see the leakdown results, they were posted here. he never pointed the finger at fow? maybe i misunderstood this:

    "They do a compression and leak down and find that two of the cylinders are below tolerance. I'm not sure if the service guys are licking their chops, but they quote $15-25k for a valve job."

    Then, as the trolls pile on he says nothing. maybe i got this thread wrong. I don't consider taking the opinion that fow did a good ppi and gave the proper advice (unless proven otherwise) and doesn't desrve this kind of thread throwing a good guy under a bus. I also do not consider stating the fact that a car is falsely advertised throwing a good guy under the bus. what exactly have i said or done that was attacking jody? disagreeing with him about starting this thread? Posting public info(ebay)? if i have said or done something wrong on this thread please point it out to me. If i agree with you i will retract what i said and apologize.





     
  25. Vitamin_J

    Vitamin_J Formula Junior

    Feb 4, 2006
    281

    You are a complete waste of my time, but I will humor myself. Tell me how that is an attack on FoW? Their price to do the work was / is 2-3x more than two independants I have spoken with. What, are we not allowed to question the prices of a car dealer? Are you the great protector of Ferrari and its' franchises?

    A second shop came up with much better numbers, but I didn't post those did I? You think that I am trying to screw people? Why don't you ask the orginal buyer how I called in a personal favor to arrange a ride in a friend's 348, so he can consider that model in lieu of 355. Ask Dave Helms about the conversation that we had. How about Daniel at Ricambi? They will tell on and offline, my greatest concern was being able to look a buyer in the eye and tell him, congrats you just bought a great car.

    And no Magnum P.I., I didn't respond in this thread while everyone is piling on both sides. Unlike you, I don't have time to average nearly 5 posts per day on Fchat.

    My ebay auction, which would have closed 7 days from now, didn't give me enough of a window to have the service performed. So, I ended it.

    Prior to this 'event' I have a car that runs great, exceptionally modded and truly a 10 out of 10. Post this event, I have a car that needs some valve work, which I am paying for. Now, lets fast forward to next week when the valve work is done and the leak down numbers are back to spec. Then, tell me what I have...

    I have my personal Ferrari, with an excellent service history, including a recent major, new valves & guides and it runs like a scalded dog. And in my opinion, will be the best 355 available for sale at that time.

    Of course, I am sure the Ferrari community and dealers can expect you to be defending their honor with your crack investigative prowess and abundance of free time. Or, maybe you will have moved on and won't need to protect potential buyers from crooks like me.

    Either way, I hope you can improve your typing during the interim.
     

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