i'd appreciate it if you could post what those symptoms are. i have almost 29K on my TR and mileage racks up fast sometimes! thanks. john
Not in this case but its happened here many times owners ***** their pants when they find out how much a repair is and end up loosing the car to the repair shop or letting it go cheap, so no it's not obvious as you seem to think to most Ferrari owners.
It is most common on TR512's but it can happen on all. The main shaft and the pinion shaft have the gear stacks all clamped in place by nuts at the ends of the shafts. The nuts are known to spin loose especially on cars that are driven hard (Duh its a Ferrari. How do you suppose it will be driven?). The factory responded by making the nuts stronger and upping the torque. It didnt work partially because the nuts are now heavier and inertia on them is greater so they still come loose. When that happens the entire gear stack shifts back and forth when you load and unload the transmission. When that happens on the main shart the shift lever shifts back and forth as well. When it happens on the pinion shaft you should be able to hear it and feel it. Appropriate assembly methods can prevent it if you know it is a problem.
Don't sell until you are sure what is wrong. A good percentage of the TR gear boxes I have fixed were not terribly expensive. I have fixed quite a few without removal..
Thanks for the heads up, but I am almost certain that the upgrades were done in 99 (or at least thats what WWoC told me) when the gearbox was completely disassembled to replace the main diff gear that the previous owner ruined. Even my mechanic asked what the heck I was doing and how did I break it, thinking that I must have been hammering on it, but not so. In the time I've owned the car, I dropped the clutch once about 4 years ago and fairly soon after needed a new clutch, and since then I've known better after my mechanic schooled me on TR transmissions/clutches and their associated costs. Don't know what made the transmission give this past Saturday, and neither do the people watching and/or the passenger...
My mechanic told me that the transmission would definitely have to come out for the fix, and that it should all be torn down to check the internals
Dave I am sorry to hear about the TR, this as everyone has stated is a very personal decision and hope you make one that makes you happy.
This summer, I spent $15k in maintenance and repairs: major service, new fuse box, new wires and various other parts. I took it out this past weekend and blew the transmission (which was already updated in 1999 for $16k by WWoC) - my mechanic tells me the shaft for first gear broke and it needs a new gear pack, but can't tell until he opens up the transmission (btw, I was in no way abusing the transmission when this happened). So, now what do I do? I have various options, but not sure what is the best: David, I had a similar thing happen to my '88 Testarossa back in 2002....and after much research I called a place in the UK which i believe was called Brighton Valley Autobreakers. They sold me the entire gearbox out of a '95 (European edition) 512M which had been crashed. This gearbox fit PERFECTLY and to this very day still runs like a charm (it has a much beefier imput shaft than my old OEM gearbox). I paid the equiv of Cdn$10,000 + Cdn$1500 to airfreight it to Vancouver, Canada (via UPS) and then another Cdn$4-5K to re and re the unit. I would strongly recommend try and track these people down (google them) and then call them up (to check for an updated inventory list) b/c all in (in USD) that is still half the cost of the prices being tossed around on this chatroom. aw.
Out of curiosity, can it be fixed to a lower standard? Let me explain. Seems like everytime a ferrari breaks, folks want to fix it with as many new parts as possible. I understand why the mechanics want to do this, since it is their reputation on the line. Lets say you dissassemble the trans yourself. Find a couple gears with scratches, nicks, whatever. Perhaps a couple of cracked gear/sheared/etc. Your mechanic wants to replace everything, as that is the proper thing to do. But again, you would spend an enormous amount of the cars value to do so. Can't just the absolute minimum of gears be changed? Undermachine some of the chipped ones? Sure, this repair won't last 50,000 miles, but then so what. It allows you to use the car for another 10-20,000 miles, or whatever. I know we all love ferraris. But if our ford-chev-cadillac broke down, there is no way in hell one would spend 1/2 its value on a trans. You would make due, some other way. So, is there some way to make this work, without renewing everything? I know, its blasphemy... It seems to me that someone could start a nice side business fabricating TR trans parts. Sure, start up costs are high...but when the trans its self is a 20-30,000$ item, there is some room for profit...
Even when it is possible it is not done. The Ferrari world is too small. Reputation is everything if you want to stay. If I take shortcuts at your direction, written in stone and your car breaks down one thing I can count on you to never say to your Ferrari friends is that "I am cheap and I asked Brian to cut every corner". Never happen and I just paid the price.
Brian, thats exactly what I said. It isn't worth it for an experienced mechanic to risk his reputation. Now, a garage tinkerer owner with time on his hands, could consider it ... he would just have to DIY (and of course, everyones skills vary ).
David This is such a bummer. I hate reading this stuff. Just when I havent seen any TR disasters posted for awhile, this one comes along. I would have to say you should sit it out and gather up some funding to get it fixed. I find it strange that this would happen after all the updates have been done in 99 by wwoc- it makes me very suspect of them an that is why I have never used them, because I have heard of similar stories. Who is currently working on the car? Did he give you an idea of cost? ball park ? anything?
I can feel your pain,..bearings in my transmissions went(I did it,dumped the clutch)my car was down for 2 plus months this summer...this is where you ask yourself,is it worth the pride ownership??good luck...as everyone told me"it's only money"...
...I can't tell you what to do here, but I can make one suggestion, as someone who's been through similar headaches: the faster you want to fix it, the more it will cost. I would start looking around for another transmission- this one seems to be chronically ailing- and have THAT one gone through, once you find it. Then put it in the car, and see how you feel about it. What I would probably not do is rebuild what's in there, since it seems prone to breaking without warning, despite "updates". I would also try to get the invoice from WWOC and see what they did- is there any chance that this disaster is their fault? I am not familiar with them. Ferrari dealerships vary just like every other brand. Probably once the car is running, you will decide to keep it. If you decide to sell it, I would either sell it as is, which will be painful, or fix it the right way and then sell it. As one of the above posts mentioned, the Ferrari world is a small one- word gets around about cars that were not honestly represented. I bought one, and was only dissuaded with great difficulty from rearranging the face of the "broker" who sold it to me, and thereafter depositing him in the Dumpster. Still kind of wish I had.
keep the car unless you need the cash. car is worth everybit of 25k as is sold a burnedout hulk to a dealer for 12k. because he needed one part he figured after raping a couple poor suckers like our selves for rediculous amounts of money for parts he still walk away and make a couple of grand. car looks beautiful and although green is not my color it still a attention getter.
Didn't Will Hubbell have his tranny upgraded in the 512 race car he has? I thought I remembred something about his similar experience. Perhaps he could chime in.
I have read most of the replies to this thread and feel the need to point out something regarding the emotional or financial points regarding if he should keep the Ferrari or not. The consensus I have gathered from countless hours reading threads on this forum is that people do, and will continue to, pay huge sums of money to drive their Ferrari limited amounts just because of the joy of owning a driving a Ferrari. With the exception of people who buy the high end and super rare Ferraris strictly for investment, with no intention of driving them, everyone else here bought their car for emotions and the way the car makes them feel. Nobody here bought a Ferrari because it was the economical thing to do. A Ferrari is emotion realized in metal, carbon fiber and leather. If I was the owner of this Testarossa I would not be able to bear the thought of watching that beauiful machine be parted out and set to the crusher. Ask yourself what the car means to you. If it is family history and fun behind the wheel, then fix it and keep it for years to come. If it is 'just a car' then consider selling it to someone that will restore it and keep it on the road for many more miles. Your mileage may vary.....but the sound of the V12 at full song should help you make your decision.
But, emotions aside. I parted out several differnt vehicles before and actually made more than they cost me new. I have a business contact who does nothing but part out motorcycles. Case in point: 2004 Yamaha R1 - Paid 9 grand or so. Parted it out to the tune of 14 grand. He's actually had me consider a side business doing the same thing. Emotions and attachments are fine and all. I have them too. But he may very well be able to part the car out with enough return to aquire new emotional attachments.
Eurospares is parting out two... http://www.eurospares.co.uk/breaking2.asp?page=31 http://www.eurospares.co.uk/breaking2.asp?page=13#
Thanks for all your input, suggestions and help! I've greatly appreciated it. The thought of parting with the car is difficult and the thought of parting it out is too great. I do not need the money, so I'm going to park it in the garage for now. I am very lucky, and still have my 355, so I have my Ferrari fix when I need it. I just spoke to my mechanic, and he said he'd never seen anything like the failure on my car before. It seems the first gear split in half and fell off the shaft, ruining a couple more of the first gear parts in the mix. When I pick up the car tomorrow, I'll take a couple picks of the broken part and post it for all of you to see. Over the next few months, I will take your collective advice and look for a 512 box and switch it out with mine as soon as I get the chance (and the $$$). Thanks again for all the advice and interest David
It makes me happy to hear this car is not going to be euthanized over this transmission issue. I thought that you were saying the transfer shaft broke in the first posts, but now this is really starting to sound more like what happened to the Red '87 I am trying to buy. They didn't specify exactly, but said that "first gear broke". They also redid the differential out of concern that there might be some damage there as well. I will try to find out more details and costs and let you know what they did. James BTW - in my case, this was an 87 car we did a PPI on in late July. (51,000 miles) It had two cylinders low on compression, so the owner was going to drive it a couple hundred miles to see if it was stuck rings -- he was doing this when first gear broke when he was just shifting into first at a toll booth with the clutch out and the car sitting still...I was going to suggest checking the engine, too - but I keep forgetting that you posted that the engine was recently redone and running great.
