246 GT VIN 1060 on Ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=150046622589

Looks nice, but after painting it looks like the rear tail light/ brake light positions were swapped with the turn signal lights.

 

GREAT looking car, I've always like the 246's, and had I known what was going to happen, I would have bought one in the 80s when they were considered "not real ferraris" and the prices reflected it.

With that said:
"The vehicle runs great with only a minor known mechanical defect!
-speedometer is disconnected cable was making noise "

Sounds fishy.

James in Denver

 

Not too sure of those door gaps!

 

Looking closer at the ad I'm glad the seller is forthcoming in the numerous defects and the compromises in maintenance (the noisey speedo cable resolved by just disconnecting it is a cheaper solution than dealing with the problem).


That sweeping windshield crack is going to be expensive to fix...




The high prices seem to be coaxing cars to come out of the woodwork in any condition.

 

Sign of the times.

Early car, this is a 70, not a 72, with knock offs, Type L car.

But, it needs a lot!!

To make it a really solid you're gonna invest $40K. To make it great, you're gonna spend way more.

It has rust and paint problems. It's gonna need the obligatory motor, tranny, brakes/suspension work. Appears to lack books and tools, too.. And don't forget the windshield, that's gonna cost a couple grand by the time you're done. sooo.....

Looks to me there might be a title concern too. Car's a '70, titled as a '72, I'd want to call and make sure it's here legally. Who's the guy for that?

Even with these issues I'd love to have this car. but it's over $70K right now, and hasn't hit the reserve. Another case of ending up inside out right out of the gate. Unless $120K is reasonable for a Euro GT driver car.

DM

 

As a guy who owns an "L" series car, bought it in '96 and did a complete restoration over 4 years, I can honestly say that you'll need well over $100K to make this car great. Whoever buys this car is going upside down, bigtime. That being said, they then get to be members of the Upside Down in an "L" Series Dino Club" of which I am a member in good standing.

The Japanese market went nuts for 206GTs and "L" series 246GTs at one point. There are lots of unique bits on these cars - some of which are very hard to find now. However, as Jon has shown, the journey will be the reward and the end result will be worth holding on to for a long time (think break even in 20 yrs).

Go get 'em Fchatters.

 

i have to acknowledge, if we all were looking to get rich, there are better venues than ferrari's. having said that, the other venues aren't as enjoyable in the process.

this car is a good car for someone to have fun with. enjoy the rebuild.....enjoy the drive...just don't expect to make a huge profit in dollar terms.

having said that, it is a fun car for someone looking for an experience. after all, it is clear omg was looking for an experiance and not just a car. i wish we could learn from that.

 

Shawn, I agree, but you have to temper your excitement over a car with a smack in the face from reality.

These are collector cars, sure, but they're at the bottom of the Ferrari heap for that. They aren't gonna be $300K cars anytime soon, so you don't want to pour $200K into it unless you have $200K to throw away.

So, buying a car that's gonna leave you $50K+ inside out on a $200K total investment isn't the best way to go.

You can buy a totally sorted GT, in top condition for $130K. Or you can buy this car and be considerably over that number to get to the same place when you're done restoring it. If you're in it for the fun, then go for it, but don't expect to recover your investment anytime soon.

The funny thing about the current market that I'm seeing is that bottom feeder cars have suddenly appeared on the market, but they're not at bottom feeder prices. They're not even at realistic prices, they're way up there. But the good cars are staying tucked away, or mostly trading privately. And, I'm guessing that the great cars sell without more than 3 or 4 people knowing it.

DM

 

$200,000 dino. 70K for the car, and another 130K to make it a $150,000 car.
Currently overpriced by about 40K.

 

oddly enough, the door gaps when new weren't that great. this car is a great example, original paint and what you see is what you got, when new. dino's and other ferrari's of this vintage weren't known for the level of quality of door gaps.

 

Excellent point.
I saw Keith's car (4REDNO) recently and the gaps are so perfect that he should have concours points deducted for that, although an exceptional car overall.

 

Very kind of you wspeer.

Oddly enough, my car did lose 0.5 point at the Ferrari Nationals one year because one Carello headlight was apparently off about 2 degrees. The holes drilled by the factory to mount my headlights were never changed and so in the end, one of the few things on the car which I didn't restore or refine was deemed wrong. Go figure. It was at that moment that I decided not to show the car anymore - it all seemed too subjective and petty. I hope for Jon's sake (OMG), he doesn't subject his car to that scrutiny when he's done.

Cheers...Keith

 

Just spoke with the dealer on this car.

Seems like a good guy, and the seller is motivated to move the car. They're looking for realistic offers.

Might want to call them if you're in the market.

402.991.1112 J.J. Feregrino is the guys name.

Dave M.

 

Wasn't this car over $70K at one point? I guess someone withdrew a bid.

It looks like the bidding ended at $65K. I paid about 2/3rds of that for my "L" series car in '96 which was in slightly better condition (mine had less rust). I don't understand why an auction of this sort isn't held without reserve. There is a worldwide audience for the car on eBay and quite frankly, a no reserve auction would generate velocity at the end which would no doubt result in the sale of the car at a higher price. I think $65K was a fair price given the condition and a no reserve would have pushed it higher still. I have no doubt the dealer is a good guy but I'm glad to see people aren't getting stupid about over paying for cars which need work. It's a Dino, good ones come on the market from time to time and so buyers should wait for a great car or buy a project car which is not overpriced and brace themselves for the ups and downs of a long restoration. As noted earlier, this car is approaching no man's land at $70K and above.

My $0.02...Keith

 

Another thought.............
Assuming the car is mechanically sound (a PPI should provide guidance to the purchaser), if the car is bought for around $70K the owner could replace the windshield (expensive), remove the pin stripes (hideous) and simply enjoy driving the car for the next 5 years without restoring it to perfect condition. After 5 years of enjoyment, the owner could then sell it (and probably not lose a dime) or restore it with an eye toward the market value at that time. There will of course be maintenance items along the way, but it seems that we are overlooking the enjoyment factor of owning and driving the car without restoring it. Disclaimer: not my car

 

Well, yes and no.

I think there are some issues you'd want to address before it gets worse.

If the rust is bad now, imagine where you're gonna be in 5 years. I'd want to address that sooner rather than later as it'll just get costlier to fix. Gotta fix the windshield, it won't pass inspection the way it is now.

Cosmetics like the interior can be ignored. you don't need books and tools, just toss some junk in the trunk for emergencies and download the manuals from Ferrari.

You certainly want to tune the motor and make sure that there aren't any issues that will cause you to eat a valve shortly after you start her up.

I told JJ (the dealer) that I thought $70K was a strong price for the car based on its needs. As Keith noted, you could spend a ton getting this into concours condition, and 1/2 a ton getting it to nice driver condition.

I'd consider the car at around $60K, and fix her up assuming the frame is ok, and the motor and gearbox are sound. (In other words, no more than $10K worth or drivetrain cost!)

Just buying it and driving it isn't a good option anymore, as these approach $125K and higher. It's not a beater, it's investment grade.

DM

 

Keith- based on the SN and general look, this probably is a L-series (maybe a late/transitional model w/ some M-series features), but shows a few differences from mine (#462):
1. No passenger grab handle on floor at side of pass seat.
2. Different and prob wrong steering wheel, likely from a later model.
3. bent ear, rather than (presumably) correct straight ear knockoffs.
4. Funky looking glove box lid, looks like from a later, prob. U.S,. car.
5. Cloth inserts on seats visually look like mine but are of a significantly darker color.
6. My engine lid release lever does not say "Motore" like this one- mine is unmarked- not sure which is correct.
? Comments?

 

regardless of where we think the car is, the seller wants $80k for the car. the seller on ebay is a consignment dealer. i think the owner needs to consider his price with reality.

 

1. No passenger grab handle on floor at side of pass seat.

I believe there should be a grab handle there. I have one in my car and know there is one in "L" series cars numbered in the 800s

2. Different and prob wrong steering wheel, likely from a later model.

Actually, this is the right wheel. They used the wood wheel from the 206GT on the first "L" series cars but they then switched to an interim, Daytona style wheel. I've got the same Daytona style wheel on my car.

3. bent ear, rather than (presumably) correct straight ear knockoffs.

Once again, when they stopped using the straight knock offs from the 206GT, they went to curved ear knockoffs with the Dino script on them. I've got the same ones on my car.

4. Funky looking glove box lid, looks like from a later, prob. U.S,. car.

That is the correct glove box.


5. Cloth inserts on seats visually look like mine but are of a significantly darker color.

Robert, I know your cloth inserts are that nice tan color and mine are the red terry cloth. I don't know if the black cloth is correct but it looks like it may be. I just like the fact that the inserts are not Dino vinyl as it makes for a nice and comfortable contrast to the Dino vinyl on the rest of the seat.


6. My engine lid release lever does not say "Motore" like this one- mine is unmarked- not sure which is correct.

After examining the picture, you can see those levers simply have a printed Dymo tape stuck to them - a nice idea for guys like me who can never remember which one opens what but clearly, not an OEM label. That being said, you will note from the photo that the bakelite material the two lever housings are made out of are both broken. Those things are very expensive to replace and hard to find. Some Lambos use them as well but unless the single lever assemblies are being remade now (the tripple ones are), they are very dear in OEM spec.

I noticed a few others things which look wrong like the gear lever knob, the floor mat rubber, the speaker covers, the expansion tank lid, the fuse box covers are missing, I'm also surprised to see a single reverse light on the chassis vs. one on each of the rear bumpers. As with all things Ferrari, the cars evolved and occassionally, varied from the norm. My observations are just that, observations.

If the buyer wants to make this a concours car, they've got their work cut out for them. If they want to make it a nice driver, this might be the car.

Please excuse my long response...Keith

 

Keith- one more thing r/e the knockoffs. I've been told (and in some cases w/ respect to my car, can confirm) that early #'d 246's shared many parts w/ the 206. Until your response, I assumed all L-series had straight-ear knockoffs. Maybe they (Ferrari) simply used up available stock of straights with the early 246's, then went to bent-ear from there. Also, the glove box lid is absolutely different from mine. Can't remember what your VIN is, but I seem to recall it being close to mine (462).

 

as a recent member and buyer of the referenced dino, i enjoyed the the threads about the car after ther fact...after several weeks of indepth evaluation,,i found the car better than expected based on my trip to omaha to see the car on a lift in early november...i have completed several major body renovations on 356 speedsters..a 356 gt coupe..an appia gte zagato ..a jag xke roadster.... many cuts, bruses and countless hours of dirty labor,i consider these efforts to be therapy and acts to save the art of great car design and engineering excellence...all from a wonderful time history ...i actually love these early european 246's and their unique details ...look forward to the great knowledge and energy of those involved in these cars....ps ..after taking apart the trunk area and liners,,discovered the cut wires and modifications to convert this car to a single centered backup light and incorrect license light...the front and rear sections up to the doors including the tube framing are very solid with no ..the passenger side longitudinal and has some rust on the inner lining and the front corner of the drivers door has some rust....car runs very well.. the rear bushings could stand replacement....will be back for info soon...euro70..4redno was quite accurate...

 

welcome to f-chat. i am glad someone has taken the time to put some tlc into the car. it never looke dthat bad from the photo's, however, one can never tell until it comes apart.