Hi All, I was wondering what is known about early 355's. How much different were their engines from the newer cars. I have heard that these early engines had more power posssibly beacuse they had bigger cams. Can anyone confirm this? I do know that the engine managements systems are different and that emission controls were a little less severe. Appreciate your thoughts on this, Thanks, Chuck
The only difference that I am aware of is the fuel injection system. The 1995 uses Bosch Motronic 2.7 while the later cars use Bosch Motronic 5.2. The Motronic 2.7 has a separate air flow meter for each bank of cylinders and produces a richer mixture than the 5.2 cars. I have owned two 1995s and a 1998. The 1995s feel like they have a bit more grunt, although this may be throttle response as opposed to outright power. The power ratings from the factory are the same for all cars (380 DIN and 375 SAE).
The only difference to the state of tune is the change to a single air flow meter needed by the 5.2 system. It was a required change to bring the car into OBD2 compliance. The single meter has slightly less flow capacity than the dual.
Oh man, 1 picture is worth 1000 words! Another question - in terms of wringing out more power, is it easier to do in one or the other cars?
The only 355 i have read about with tuned cams, is the 1996 car of Michael Shumacer. It illedgedley had 4 none standard camshafts and could rev all the way to 10,000 RPM
Not only the ECU is different. They changed the whole intake system. 2.7 cars suck cold air from the top behind the small windows. 5.2 cars suck warm air next to the oil coolers. 2.7 cars: cold air, shorter intake tubes, more pressure + other ECU = +30...40 BHP Ferrari did nothing to reduce the lack of power changing to 5.2. They said they did, but nothing happened. OEM 5.2 cars : 320....340 BHP OEM 2.7 cars : 360....375 BHP Andi
A couple of the guys on here posted dyno plots with around the factory claimed 380hp. I believe both were M2.7 cars. An M5.2 car gave around 320hp at a Pistonheads dyno day recently (the Esprits's were coming in pretty much on spec on the same day http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=259651&f=23&h=0&hw=dyno+day). Obviously it depends on the condition of the engine and how the cams were timed when the belts were put on - this one may not have been right. Anyone got any more comparisons? a sample of 3 isn't exactly scientific.. Either way, complying with new emmission control standards without other compromises is a tough ask.
I saw those figures on pistonhead for the F355. 318hp is that rwhp or at the crank? I find it hard to believe that the 318 is Rwhp.
Dont find it hard to beleve. The standard 355 is about 315ish rwhp anyways, with F360s @315-350 wrhp. Mine was dynoed two months ago with 328 rwhp. So were a couple more 355s on here, like Luso64s and Aircons 355s. So dude do try and keep up with current posts eyhttp://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=106847&highlight=355+dyno http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120848&highlight=355+dyno Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
On the 1995 2.7 Spiders, the air intake comes over the radiator in an insulated hose, and picks up from above the top inlet in the door. I thought that was pretty cool. JM
I'm sorry, I meant it is hard to believe 318hp is at the crank. If 318 is rwhp, then with a 15%loss, it would bring it to 375 hp.
They are all crank figures for that day. Chaa, out of interest have you seen any plots for a standard 5.2? I think (??) the three you have posted are 2.7 or Challenge.
First, if the 355 only pushed out 318 bhp @the crank that day, then there is a big problem with that car, that is almost 348 figures. Are you sure it was at the crank becourse them figures would be more like at the wheels power looking at my own and the other dynoed cars. Would you not agree. and no mate i have not seen a 5.2 late dyno print out, would like to though.
I had seen somewhere that the 5.2s were putting out around 290rwhp. About 20hp less than the 2.7, but don't know if that was just that perticular car or typical of all 5.2's. I know my 95 with Hyperflows,GruppeM intake and a chip out of a challenge car is much more responsive than other 95's that I have driven.
I do agree that 318rw would sound right for a healthy M2.7 as you have proved All the others seemed to come in pretty close to factory crank figures (the M5 had a known fault thus the 260 prediction before the run). It would have been a bit unfair to quote crank/crank for the others and crank/rw for 1. The results Car (owner) Factory Expected Result Saab 9000 turbo (Soren) 225 270+ 278 Lotus Turbo Esprit (Andy) 210 210+ 208 Lotus Esprit GT3 (Jonathan) 240 245 252 Ferrari 355 (Bernard) 375 380+ 317 Noble M12 GTO 3R (David) 356 ? 305 Lotus Esprit V8 GT (Martyn) 350 350 350 TVR Griffith 500 (Tim) 320 320 261 Lotus Esprit S4s (Alan) 285 285 286 Lotus Esprit Turbo SE (Jason) 264 280+ 283 Lotus Turbo Esprit (Keir) 210 ? 184 TVR Cerbera (Adam) 350 300-320 341 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 (Rob) 260 220+ 260 Toyota Celica GT4 (Adam) 185 200+ 209 Lotus Esprit V8 GT (Neal) 350 350+ 381 BMW M5 (Paul) 340 260+ 290 Lotus Elise 118 118 133 Lotus Esprit (Dan) 172 160+ 162 Like I say, maybe it wasn't running right or the "95's are faster" rumour is true.. I'll be shopping for a 2.7 if I decide on a change next year. DTM power are also not too optimistic - but they are selling tuning packages! "DTMPower Ferrari Engine Packages F355 - 405BHP We have developed a range of performance parts for F355, these include a handling package of springs, dampers, and anti-roll bars and in addition to that we have available an engine conversion to raise the horsepower output from the actual standard measured 320bhp peak to a more respectable 405bhp with much improved midrange torque. This entails work to the heads and remapping the fuelling and ignition."
Thanks everyone, there does seem to be something to the idea that the late 94 and 95 models had something different. I have been told that the cams were actually cut differently for these cars and should have produced additional hp. While the actual numbers do change from car to car, I tend to believe that the early cars were certainly set up a little hotter than later cars. Those marketing guys... I think Andi summed it very well. Chas
I have been told by 2 people at FOC that the 95 cars had more horse power - 20 -30 is the number I was quoted. The reason I was given had something to do with the OBD sensor... but I have also been told / heard said... that the 95 cars had the "challenge motor". I can't say that I know exactly what that intails, but thats what I was told - again by the dealer. I won't name the persons at the dealership (because I don't want to get into opinions on any idividual) I am only stating what I have been told.
I think what the dealer was saying is that the Challenge F355s, which technically were 1996s, had the 1995 engine setup.
Hi guys, in the challenge cars were the best, poven factory engines installed. Challenge cars from the European challenge series had exactly the same engine performance as early 2.7 OEM cars. It was not allowed to change the ECU. The only difference was the challenge muffler. The cars in the european challenge series had 370 - 380 BHP. The weight was about 1350 kg. If you get a 2.7 car with a "good factory engine " 410 hp at the crank is possible by: a) optimizing the ECU b ) installing test pipes or HyperFlow cats c ) installing a challenge muffler d ) installing better manifiolds everything else are ferry tales....................... Andi
Once upon a time...... Once upon a time there was an X-pipe. He was a very good X-Pipe, and he made 40 horsepower. Then one day, when the X-Pipe was making the magic horsepower, a little boy said "I can't see the magic horsepower". The X-Pipe said, "Oh my precocious young friend, It is here, you just can't see it." The little boy agreed. The youngster said "But why can't i see it?" "It is because you are using the wrong drivetrain loss percentage" said the X-Pipe. "You need to have magic hat!" "A magic hat?" "Yes, A magic hat!" "What do you get out of a magic hat?" said the now skeptical youngster. "Claimed Horsepower Figures, of course!" crowed the X-Pipe. "You just figure out what number you want, and reach into the magic hat!" The young boy stared at the X-Pipe for a moment, still trying to figure out why he was so confident. Then the lad shuffled slowly away, shaking his head, and muttering "I gotta get me one of them hats" The End
