Hi Clive, missed this thread for a while. Just a question. Are all the orig. metal panels removable? Will the roof be a stick on over the existing? I was thinking of making a full C.fibre body for my TR then add on gunmetal wheels. Think it'll look sinister! Do you think it's possible for your boys to fabricate shells from existing metal body? Some sections are bolt on so I guess those panels must be stick over. How much are they charging you for the fibre body work? Good work there. Did you get a chance to renew the lay-off period? PM me for details.
The whole body is being replaced, nothing will have a "cover". The new shell will be bonded to the chassis, which will be stiffened first.
Clive, this might sound a dumb question but does wet lay cf require any heat like fibreglass or can you just do it simply, i.e can you make a mould of something like a wing and wet lay cf with resin into it and when its dry hey presto you have a wing?, or am I in a dream world hoping I can make it in the corner of my garage simply
If you aren't after the ultimate structural cf part then wet lay-up can be done the same as woven GRP mat. You can make non structural cf easily. Now if we move on to pre-preg cf... The main difference between pre-preg carbon and wet lay-up carbon is that the per-preg carbon already has the resin impregnated in the carbon fabric whereas with wet lay-up carbon the carbon fibre and the resin are separate and added in the mould. All carbon (and GRP for that matter) parts are made with carbon (or fiberglass) cloth and resin. The benefit of prepreg carbon is that the resin is applied in a factory under controlled conditions and the ratio of fiber to resin is controlled accurately. When somebody does wet lay-up parts, they just take the carbon cloth and pour resin onto/into it and it's nearly impossible to get the proper ratio. There is an optimum ratio for maximum strength which is a little over 30% resin to cloth by weight. Most wet lay-ups are over 50%. Pre-preg parts are therefore lighter and stronger than wet lay-up and that's why race teams and aerospace companies use pre-preg. The downsides are that it costs more, needs to be kept frozen and that you need an oven and vacuum system (and/or autoclave) to use it. BTW vacuum bagging is easy, it is the big autoclave that is a bugger. Rather than writing a complete treatise check this link out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite-reinforced_plastic
Thanks for all the info Clive, I think I will have a go around easter time ( I have so much else to sort in the meantime). that link looks reall interesting, I will read it thoroughly tonight, from what I briefly read I will still need a vacuum bag, I didn't get to any part that said about heat being added
Ok but maybe I don't know but to me it looks like the roof, A, C pillars & part of the body look like a whole structural piece or is there a tube frame under those? I know you're making a complete shell but how will it replace the roof etc? How strong will the structure be as opposed to the original metal, not to be a PITA but just in case an impact happens or roll over, how will it sustain? How about fitting the windscreen? How do they construct, strengthen & glue a CF car like F40/Enzo/Pagani etc? I read that Aston Martin uses some of those epoxy you mentioned. I looked @ my TR & seems that only the bumpers, fenders, door shells, bonnet, engine cover & rear quarter panels can be re-constructed in CF but getting a proper fitment (bolt-on?) would be a real pain & it must stay together @ 150mph. The entire roof+A & C pillar might just require a lay-over to get a full CF look. Hmmmm
Not a PITA at all, quite sensible questions. The Mondial actually does have tubular reinforcement in the roof so on the coupe this will still be there although I do intend to replace the tubes with stronger ones. On the convertible versions the windscreen surround will be much stronger and other areas of the chassis, especially the passenger cell, will be triangulated and generally beefed up using bonded in composite panels to increase the stiffness that would more than compensate for the lack of roof. This stiffening will be much more extensive than the difference between the original Mondial cabriolet and the coupe (as they came from Ferrari). The original roof is not very strong at all (large flat thin metal panels rarely are). Weight for weight properly constructed GRP is eight times stronger than steel and of course more exotic composites such as carbon fibre, Kevlar and other aramid based materials increased at stiffness and strength differential (at a cost). To get the best strength from normal fibreglass you would use epoxy resins and woven mat with vacuum bagging to achieve the optimum resin to glass ratio and (relatively) consistent panel thickness. Normal chopped strand mat is also quite strong and a lot easier to work with. For a normal road car chopped strand mat with the odd woven layer is adequate. Huntsman Adhesives who make lots of household name adhesives (such as Araldite) will be advising on the correct bonding agent to use in this project. Overall the intention is to make the one-piece body shell (i.e., everything except the doors, bumpers, bonnet and boot lids) and the chassis a single cohesive unit, which will increase the stiffness by an order of magnitude over the original car, leading to much better suspension location and set up. The windscreen will be bonded in as we have prepared the mould for this. I don't see why you think that achieving a proper fitment for bolt-on panels would be a particular problem, your metal panels are already bolted on and if you read the paragraphs above you will see the carbon fibre panel would be much stronger and stiffer than your pressed steel existing bodywork. If you take out the interior trim in your Testarossa you will see that it too has tubular reinforcement running up the "A" pillar and down the "C" pillar (the Testarossa chassis was developed from the Mondial chassis). I wouldn't want to lay (a single layer of) carbon fibre over the top of your metal roof as all this would do would be to add weight to the car and cause fitment problems for the glass, trim and opening panels. BTW hopefully I will be taking a few more pictures later today of the completed framework on the moulds. The moulds will be dismantled from the car this weekend and a full body shell should be completed by the end of the month.
As a little aside I investigated a six ship collision this week where a 100,000 tonne loaded tanker managed to collide with five anchored ships. I suggested that the Captain should think of applying for a job at McDonald's flipping burgers instead of driving ships...
That was a collision off Singapore on 26th February 2003 when the Gas Tanker "Gas Roman" collided with the smaller cargo ship "Springbok". The two remained locked together for a week before salvors could safely remove Springbok without her sinking. Great picture from the helicopter with the two locked together at 90 degrees.
The moulds are now off the buck. The basic principle is a complete framework that holds all of the individual parts of the mould together, improving alignment and reducing the chances of distortion. It is bloody heavy. When cured the outer shell is complete and the car just needs the interior plus the doors, bonnet, boot and bumpers. The mould can easily (ok with a bit of effort) be dismantled to release the cast shell. The mould still needs a lot of work before the first shell can be cast. The end of 2006 is likely for this. The construction method will be mostly woven glass mat with vacuum-bagged epoxy resin for strength. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Since you have now such a professional setup, are you planning on making molds for more than one car? Given your cool design I could foresee a renaissance for the Mondial used car market.
Yes, I will be doing more than one car, each one will be different: 1) coupe (as seen already). 2) modular convertible/GTS. 3) 3-seater with a lot of changes to create a more modular car. The Mondial chassis is a great base to build on. Anyway I already have 2 Mondials myself...
I'm sure you've thought about it yourself, but make a few extra panels. In case you have a mishap and if nothing else I'm sure somebody will come along and pay you good $$$ for a copy.
Blame it on the haze..... What was the bugger doing? Knocked into not one but FIVE anchored ships? That's like driving on the road & veered then crashed into five parked cars. I thought they have state-of-the-art radars etc.... Good for your job though & imagine the claims on insurance. Guess he's out of job for a long time.
Quite an undertaking. How are you going to be able to access all areas of the mold to be able to lay in your glass with the the huge support structure (which seems to be in the way)? Does it come apart for lamination? Are those mold flanges big enough for vacuum bagging? Be careful! Things are going to start getting really expensive from here on out.
The support structure is not actually a real problem, it is large enough so that you can step through it. Anyway the intention is to make 2 A-frames at each end so that the whole unit can rotate about the longitudinal axis. The flanges ought to be large enough. Thinking about making a rubber skin for the vacuum bagging to make life easier. Expensive - so what's new!
