Zero insurance coverage in BC for track or performance driver training

Went through the hoops to talk to ICBC reps today who read from ICBC articles that NO insurance coverage is provided if damage happens at (i) any kind of track event involving racing, time trials, etc, or (ii) any kind of driver training that aims to improve driver performance. My search was prompted by several friends who did a BMW driver training course and assumed their ICBC insurance would cover them in event of damage. So, unless some alternative private source can be identified in BC -- and don't know of any --this puts a damper on tracking +/or performance driving with one's ferrari.

Does the same apply in other provinces?

 

Yep. I don't know of any company that covers timed races (other than specialized track insurance), and most insurance companies in Canada also do not cover high performance driving events either. Hence the common practice of having your car towed out and dumped into a ditch somewhere and hoping the insurance adjuster is an idiot.

 

We have a large track community here in Calgary..........and the owners that I know who have smashed their cars at the track have all told me that they pay out of their own pocket for the repairs. It is part of the risk/reward equation.

They wouldn't have it any other way..........imagine what premiums would cost if you had coverage for this, had an accident, claimed it, and renewed (if they even offered you one).............

 

You mean.....that doesnt work?

 

Gee, I've never heard of such a thing! My gosh! That's fraudulent, isn't it?

 

Just make sure you take all the sponsor and number stickers off first.

 

...and the slicks too.

Check out your warranty booklet. That flies out the window too.

Steve

 

Not true Arshad - Im covered.

Once you are timed or are on a track in preparation for being timed, youre not covered. If you are on the track, are not being timed and have no intention of being timed, ever, unless your policy states something different than mine, you ARE covered.

Ive had 3 friends within the last 12 months get cheques for their fully written off cars from incidents at Mosport.

Their claims were all listed as regular on the road accidents and in each case they told their agent that the incident happened on the track.

If I were to dump it on a track, the minimum claim I would file would be considerably higher than if something happened on the street.

 

Hey Dave, which insurance company are you with? I know that I'm not covered even for HPDE's with State Farm -- I specifically asked. Even a lot of insurance companies in the US that used to cover HPDE's are now changing their policies to exclude them. I don't know of anyone who covers timed events other than track-specific insurance which command outrageous premiums.

I'd love to find out which insurance companies they were with. I know of a couple of people who paid out big bucks at Mosport including a friend that totalled a 3 month old 996 in Turn 2 and shelled out > $50k to have it repaired.

The other thing to watch out for are other people timing the event even if done without your permission. That includes bystanders caught on video with stopwatches, radar guns, etc. This type of evidence can be used against you to deny your claim.

 

Well - if you ask them, they will tell you that you are absolutely not covered. They may even put a note on your file saying that you have been notified that youre not covered and then you're, well, not covered.

DONT ASK. READ YOUR POLICY!

Why would they have video evidence of anything? You hit the wall. Put your car on a flatbed to wherever, call them and tell them you hit the wall. When they ask how, you tell them that you took a late apex in 2, ended up in the marbles, hit the wet grass and accelerated sideways into the tires.

They'll probably contact the organizers and may even make them swear that there was no official timing. They will ask you, and may even inspect your car for evidence of timing (those new Pcar timers may disqualify you!) for evidence of timing, but I dont think they'll try to find others who were at that event.

And Ive got friends too who have shelled out big coin. The reality is they either never bothered because they were told by someone who may not have known what they were talking about that they wernt covered, or made a claim and had it denied and then given up. Id count on the claim getting denied initially; you often have to fight them for it.

I will PM you who I use. Its one of the normal, everyday names. I suspect that at some point my policy will be revised, but it still reads that Im covered (by an absense of being listed as exempt). Remember, with insurance law ANY gray area, which this is, always defaults to coverage.

 

It seems as if one has to juggle the risk/reward equation. For example, the reward of taking my Challenge Stradale to the track is that it will fly and so will my spirits. The risk of a crash is;
-- it could cost me $50-100K to repair
-- the CS would be out of commission for awhile
-- I'd have a heavily blemished exotic if/when I want to sell

An adjusted risk/reward equation might be to have something alongside the CS that is far less expensive, is dedicated for the track or performance driving, and doesn't have to be kept pristine, such as;
-- Porsch 928S
-- Older BMW M3
-- Older Vette

Maybe I'm just acknowledging what everyone already knows.

 

Shawsan.....

Unfortunately you guys in BC you only have one insurer.......which compounds the problem if they refuse to cover you at some point for track adventures.......or they bump your premium accordingly. It sucks I know......I am in the same boat.

I wouldn't do what Biobanker is suggesting either (no offense bud).......for the exact same reasons.......me thinks that the grief and agro and expense of getting all lawyered up to do mortal combat with your soon to be ex-insurer over some fenders and a bit of paint is not worth the one time coverage you'll eventually receive the cheque for.

I am a car dealer........I pay $10K a year for my inventory and 2 dealer plates with personal a 24 hour personal use allowance.........dealers in Alberta only have one source for insurance....."the facility".....if I have any incidents I'll pay for them out of pocket. Told my agent the only claim he'd ever get against my policy would be from the other parties lawyers if I died in the accident.....LOL !!

An older 3 series BMW, Vette or 944 Turbo would be a great track car.

 

None taken - a track car is 100% the way to go. Would I make a claim for $20k? no way. $30k? Prob not. $80k, hell ya I would.

Id love to have a track car. Unfortunately, living where I do, it cant happen unless I keep it elsewhere, which isnt much fun.

But should it ever be needed, I wanted to tell FChatters to read their policies and make their choices. Blanket statements of not being covered are likely not correct in Ontario. If you have an incident, read your policy and fight the insurance company if they deny the claim. I know people who have paid out lots of dough to fix a car damaged on the track. They thought they didnt have a choice. They did. I know people who have made the claim with full disclosure and had a cheque in their hands for the full car 30 days later, and then saw no rate increase the following year. I also know people who had the claim denied and fought the company, and had it settled. I dont know anyone who filed the claim and failed to get paid out, eventually.

 

If you track your car in Ontario be careful. Cover your plates and serial#. At several Solo events this year there were insurance reps taking pics of cars running the events.

 

someone I know totaled their Sport bike on Mission raceway for a track day. He claimed it through ICBC and said it was a "driver training" session. After 3 months and 2 lawyers....he finally got fully payed out for the wrecked bike. So there are some loop holes in the system.

 

How much did the 2 lawyers cost?

....and in ones pocket too...

 

Thats what i was gonna ask. Sportbike = $120000, 2 lawyers = $12000 EACH! Lesson learned = If you crash your bike on the track, just leave it in the runoff and take a cab home, and forget it ever happened!

 

Biobanker, this DE insurance loophole is quickly being closed around North America by all insurance companies. Once the lawyers and courts have their way with the Fontana crash, we will all be under new rules. The old standard of "don't take anything to the track, you are not prepared to push off a cliff" will be the norm in the coming years.

One thing we can be assured of, is that the insurance companies aren't dumb. Once they pay out a few more of you and your buddies 80K claims, you can be be assured it will be slammed shut.

There is a whole 'nother problem waiting in the wings for guys who are having trouble getting insurance for track/DE/Competition cars to drive to the track. Part of the problem is the insurance companies have become very leary insuring anything driven on a track, near a track, or within a whiff of the track, let alone on public roads to or from the track.

I expect we will all be on trailers in the future.

Rick