0052 M - ANOTHER Barn Find

What about this car today? if you got any news do no hesitate to post.
thanks in advance

ps: i dont want to see this thread falling.

 

Here you go Christian - a little update



0052M's motor is ready for final assembly after a rebuild. Should go back into the car late October. The car will be in unrestored driving condition by December.

Here are a few photos that document the discovery's we made after receiving the car last year.

The photos below are about the esoteric subject of F2 block comparisons wth 0052M block ( previously unknown type in a 166 Barchetta). Also Cam gear drive housing comparisons.
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Manny,

Very cool! Thank yu for sharing!

Regards,

Art S.

 

I agree! Any idea what that underlined "6" after the date on the F2 block means? Could it mean the 6th F2 block of "x" number made?

 

Sorry if this is a re-post...
http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/0052M.166MM.htm

 

I believe the # 6 or # 16 means the number of blocks produced in order of production. A manufacturing number. Block #6 has an earlier date 5-23-49 than block # 16 6-9-49. Sixteen days apart. Looks like the rate of block manufactureing was about a block every other day.

Also, the blocks could have only even numbers. Therefore, # 6 would be the third block and 16 is the eight manufactured.

Besides the 0052M stamp, another interesting number that is also on the block is #112. Stamped on top above the timing port. (Please, not to be confused with a 250 Ferrari motor type number). Some of the 166 F2 race cars were identified by a sequence of numbers starting with 100. For example 102, 106, 116 ,118. Even numbers only.

http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/summary/Ferraris.Overview.Formula.xx.59.htm
166 F2 4 102, 106, 116, 118

So, possibly the 112 stamp fits in the 166 F2 sequence 102,??,106,??,112,??,116,118.

Very little detail history of the F2 166 is known. Any additional 166 F2 stamp pictures or info would be interesting. ie: was 112 a 166 F2 car ? Some puzzles to solve.

 

Hello Mroz,
at first sorry for the delay that i reply. So it s really interresting to see the difference between the two block and also to know that 0052M was
not the same block that the others 166.

i see that it s really complicate for find all informations concerning the car
like the block of F2 correspondance,and also the different material used for
build the block.
i suppose that magnesium is less weight than aluminium? or possible much more resistant?

as you can say it s a real puzzle for collecting info , really exiting and passionating to find the good info. the stamp #112 over the block...
hope that you find much more info with the help of others collectors
and do not hesitate to drop line i like to read.

i learn with Ferrari that sometime there s no logic.

Regards
Christian
ps: i ve open a French section iwill be proud to you come, for speaking of the 250 MM... for example.

 

Thanks!
Seems like some of Ferrari's numbering systems were as goofy as those at Alfa Romeo

 

Silly boy! Why would you think they had a system? Much less follow one if they had one.

 

Suscribete en www.cavallino.com, sino, te lo podria arreglar yo que vivo en Los Angeles en estos tiempos.

 

2 pics:
Almost assembled after rebuild
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The engine is a spectacular sculpture in itself.

 

These are most beautiful pics.

 

Beautiful pictures. Thank you.

Question: Are the cam rollers a retrofit or did this engine started life with them?

john

 

i ve seen so many engines, compentorary cars, but
i never seen a engine like this in my life. pure mechanic.
Yes, it s incredible.
See this engine like that it looks old and seems so easy compare to a new engine, and sound different much more interesting to hear and drive than a new one.

thanks for pics, the man behind must to be happy great job.

many hours working on it, need to know how many in total.

what are you doing now a total and complete restauration or only some parts
of the car? did you dicide to keep the same patine over the car?


have you received the O. manual or i must to try again?

 

Hi! Everything is original including the rollers. Only one cracked spring replaced.

Its taken 6 months. Mostly waiting for a couple parts.

The car will be kept as found. Just road worthy.

Thanks

 

When Manny and I recently were exchanging photos of #0052M I came up with this photograph.
Some time ago I found this photo somewhere on an English site where people were able to put on old car photos. The photo is no longer to be found.
Manny's anatomical dissection of the photo makes it clear the car in question is #0052M.
The known race record of 0052M however does not show an event where it was entered with #76. I think the photo was probably taken at a British event and probably when owned from 1952 until September 24 1953 by T.A.S.O.Mathieson (UK).
Does anyone have a clue as to which event this could have been?
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nice to see that. really hard to find info concerning this car.

Manny find here some infos:
Chinetti and 166MM

1948 12/09 CHINETTI/LUCAS Luigi/Jean 166 C 016 I 12 heures de Paris Autodrome Linas Montlhery match France Angleterre
1949 25/06 FERRET "DREYFUS"/LUCAS Pierre Louis/Jean 166 MM 0010 M 24 h du Mans barquette Touring abandon 53e tour # 23 accident Maison Blanche
1949 11/07 CHINETTI/LUCAS Luigi/Jean 166 MM 0010 M 24 h de Francorchamps barquette Touring 1er # 20
1950 24/06 LUCAS/SELSDON Jean/lord 166 MM 0054M 24 h du Mans barquette Touring (livree par Touring n° 3450 a Chinetti & Plisson Paris) ab. 17e heure accident # 28 (indiquee en tant que 195 MM par ACO) (lu aussi avec châssis 0050 M ?)
1950 23/07 CHINETTI/LUCAS Luigi/Jean 166 MM 0010 M 12 heures de Paris Montlhery barquette Touring (accidente au Mans) 1er # 16
1951 07/05 LUCAS/PERON Jean/Jacques 212 E 0096 E Rallye du Maroc berlinette Vignale (du 07/05 au 13/05) 1er # 35
1951 23/06 CHINETTI/LUCAS Luigi/Jean 340 A 0032 MT 24 h du Mans barquette Touring 8e # 15
1951 15/09 BAIRD/LUCAS Robert "Bobby"/Jean 212 E 0136 E Tourist Trophy Dunrod barquette Touring 6e # 27 (forfait sur 340 A # 4 ainsi que L. Chinetti 166 MM # 31)
1952 25/05 LUCAS/PERON Jean/Jacques 225 S 0164 ED 12 heures de Casablanca circuit d'Anfa berlinette Vignale 2e # 25
1952 02/06 LUCAS/SIMON Jean/Andre 225 S 0164 ED GP de Monaco sport berlinette Vignale 4e # 58
1952 08/06 LUCAS Jean 225 S 0164 ED Circuit de vitesse d'Orleans 1er + de 2 litres
1952 14/06 CHINETTI/LUCAS Luigi/Jean 340 A 0204 A 24 h du Mans spider Vignale disqualifie 13e heure (ravitaillement interdit) # 12;
1952 29/06 LUCAS Jean 225 S 0164 ED Circuit de vitesse des Deux Sèvres Bressuire 1er
1952 13/07 LUCAS Jean 225 S 0164 ED GP des Sables d'Olonne (en marge du GP de France de F2 ?) 1er
1952 27/07 LUCAS Jean 225 S 0164 ED Mont Ventoux 3e
1952 03/08 LUCAS Jean 225 S 0164 ED GP du Nurburgring course des plus de 2 litres abandon
1952 13/08 LUCAS/MARCHAND Jean/René 225 S 0164 ED ? Liege - Rome - Liege berlinette Vignale abandon # 110
1952 14/09 LUCAS Jean 225 S 0164 ED GP de l'A.C.du Nord de la France a Roubaix berlinette Vignale abandon embrayage
1952 19/11 CHINETTI/LUCAS Luigi/Jean 340 MEX 0224AT Carrera Panamericana berlinette Vignale 3e # 20
1953 15/02 LUCAS Jean 225 S 164 ED ? Grand Prix d'Agadir berlinette Vignale 4e # 16 ou 18 (voir photo "Jaguar Sport et Tradition p. 96 deux carrosseries differentes: Pinin Farina: # 14 et Vignale # 16 ou 18)
1953 29/03 LUCAS Jean 225 S 164 ED Circuit de Nîmes sports > de 1500cc 3e
1953 12/04 LUCAS Jean 225 S 0164 ED Montlhery epreuve sport berlinette (participation incertaine)
1954 07/03 LUCAS Jean 225 S 0164 ED ? Criterium du Senegal 2 heures de Dakar abandon
1954 19/04 LUCAS Jean 250 MM GP de Marrakech Circuit de la Menara 2e (c.f. AP n° 98 page 17 - affiche -)
1954 09/05 LUCAS Jean 250 MM 0282 MM Rallye Sable Solesmes ? # 149
1955 27/02 LUCAS Jean 750 Monza 0440 M Agadir spider Scaglietti > 2 litres abandon # 11
1955 14/03 LUCAS Jean 750 Monza 0440 M GP de Dakar spider Scaglietti 7e # 21
1955 17/04 LUCAS Jean 750 Monza 0440 M Montlhery Coupe de Paris International Sport ? # 28

 

I don't know what race meeting it is, but the photo was taken at Goodwood - those paddock shelters were distinctive and some were still there into the 1980s.


Paul M

 

If it really Goodwood i read something like that in my last research the 0054m was in Goodwood .

 

en marge? oui, puisque:
13/7/1952 GP de F2 des Sables d'Olone L. Villoresi / 500 F2 1er n° 12

 

In last book published for Targa Florio*,

I read page 375: 29 june 1952 TASO Mathieson on Ferrari 195S (2,3l) 6th OA 1st Sport over 2000cc

and on www.barchetta.cc website: I read: 52/jun/29 8th OA Targa Florio T.A.S.O. Mathieson #40

what would confirm that TASO was owner of 166MM s/n 0052M (like writing by Boudewijn)

I acknowledge, very humbly, not to understand.

* TARGA FLORIO 20th Century epic by Pino Fondi Giorgio Nada Editore

p.s. for the dates with the s/n indicated by christian.fr, it recopied a working paper which I had posed on a forum (with another pseudonym)

 

all informations are extrat from the site of JLDavier, i forget to mentioned.
he was Sooo desapointed that i prefer after his memo to make a correction.
it s not because i like to take the info without mentioned the Sacro Sain copyright but only for "Give" the info.
it s not recopied, i ve no really time for that.
it s just "posted" that all.

now, why so many speudo used? anyway! no time.

 

Paul, your suggestion it would be Goodwood proves precise. It is Goodwood, to be exact, I found the photo was taken at the Goodwood September International on September 29 1951. The driver was Bobby Baird finishing 8th in a "2.3" Ferrari suggesting the engine of 0052M already was upgraded from 166 to 195 specification. This is confirmed by documents which show the engine changed its capacity into 2340 cc already in 1951.
Earlier that year Bobby Baird entered the car in the British Empire Trophy on June 14 1951, but was then registered with a 2.0 engine, suggesting the engine capacity enlargement took place between June and September 1951.
Bobby Baird used two Ferraris that year, 0052M and 0136E, a 212 Export. Possibly he owned both cars at that time.

 

Baird never raced 0136E!!!!. He hardly ever raced 0052M either; he did not start in Goodwood after finishing 10th OAin the prelim. 5-lap race. Neither do I think he ever owned a Ferrari. Best wishes, Kare