Supercharged QV (take 3)-or is it a turbo?

I like it - very elegant. Will the intercooler core be inside the upper plenum?

 

You're the engineer but to me it sounds like the remote intercooler would possibly cause boost lag. Have you checked out the Laminova intercooler cores?

 

People get pressure and volume of air flow mixed up sometimes. You can't feasibly use a tank of compressed air to boost manifold pressure in a running engine. Think of engines as just a big air pump. To put it in really simple terms, the reason boosted engines have positive pressures in the manifold is because the turbo or supercharger is trying to force more VOLUME of air into the engine in a given time period than the engine can pump out in the same time period. Think of turbos as being productive of large VOLUMES of air rather than a device used to create pressure. Sure, you could use a portable tire inflation pump to pump up your manifold pressure to 100 psi in a non-running engine, but as soon as the engine starts running there is no way that small pump (or theoretical air tank like you suggested) can keep up with the volume of air necessary to keep positive boost pressures in a running engine. It can produce high PRESSURE, but it does so very slowly. You have to have a device to produce high VOLUMES of air to have boost in an engine.

To build a device like you suggest, you would need either a very large air tank, or one that can hold very high pressure (in order to store that large VOLUME of air we need), and it would have to have a huge dump type valve to be able to move its large volume of air VERY quickly. It just can't be feasibly done in the scale necessary to make it useful.

 

Actually, I was looking at this problem earlier. If the 308 had a flow efficiency of 100%, which its most likely does not, it could flow aprox. 260 cubic feet of air at wide open throttle at 5000 rpm, and 364 cu. ft. per minute at 7000 rpm. at the top end that amounts to 6 cu. ft. per second. If a high pressure 125 cu. ft. air bottle could be released fast enough, you could concievable have bottled boost. Your bottle would need a much larger valve and lines.

 

Ferrari only went with individual throttles on the 355 and F50. Everything else (ie, 360, 430, 550, 456, 599, 612, Enzo, etc.) has two throttles, so there might be less benefit for individual throttles on a heavy street car with a relatively small engine.

Have your thoughts changed at all on cutting the rear bonnet? It seems you could get a body shop to raise the center section. I can't recall if the rear bonnet is aluminum, it's pretty heavy, so I doubt it. Who would ever notice if the center square there between the grills was 2" higher than stock?

 

Anything making 600rwhp would look pretty good to me... If the proportions are odd on the new system, paint the runners black so they blend in and paint the plenum red or silver so it draws the attention away. Then paint the valve covers red or silver to match.

Lol. I feel like I'm on some HGTV show about what not to wear.

 

Bret,
I have a Feb '99 360 engine sitting in front of me, it has 8 Tb's and one valve that seperates the mainfold chambers. unless it changed in '00 i'd think the 360 has individual TB's

 

scratch that, there not true TB's. each 'valve' operates the runner length. open valve= short run and closed= long run.

 

Paul, your chunk of 308 cylider head left today. It wouldn't quite fit in my horizontal band saw and it took a while to hand feed it through a vertical band saw. Look for it Monday or Tuesday. I look forward to sharing the results of your experiments.

 

Funny, that's what I was thinking!

 

Both drawings look good. Nice long runners.

My runners between the intercooler plenum and the heads are extremely short ( to keep it under the stock hood) and have a seat-of-the-pants derived shape. At some point I should have my whole set-up flow checked.

By the way, the 2V cylinder head and a carb intake manifold got picked up by UPS today and are on their way to Vic for the flow testing we talked about. Looking forward to his findings.

I have also pondered replacing the steel engine cover with a carbon fiber unit. Being able to whip it off single handed would make engine access a lot easier and all that weight up high (and much of it outside the wheel base) can't be helping the handling! That thing weighs a ton! I know a couple of guys who make CF panels. If there was a known demand it might be worth having a mold made from a stock deck lid and make a bunch of copies.

 

Wil, thanks, I'll keep my eyes peeled.

Re: aftermarket deck lid. I can only assume it would cost a small fortune to have anyone make any, everyone seems to want that Ferrari tax. But I have seen quite a few carbed 308 pics with really tall velocity stacks and having a cutout in the deck lid. Seeing as I have a spare lid off the other car, anyone know just how hard it is to pull a mold off something like that? would the deck lid be damaged making a mold from it? Light fiberglass would be sufficient to modify the lid and lose a lot of wieght, that steel lid is pretty darn heavy.

 

I had two rear quarter panels made (big pieces) in carbon fiber recently using 2 brand new aluminum quarters fresh from Lamborghini as plugs. I didn't pay all the mold charges since I did it in partnership with another guy but the new quarters were about $6,000.00 each and I got the CF copies for about $2,800.00 each. Let me make a call and I'll let you know.

 

The laminova style manifold looks cool. It might be an idea to work it into the A/C system. With the boost you're running, you'd presumably make enough additional power to overcome running a compressor.

Doing body work is a big time pain, so I definitely hear you on not wanting to spend a month's worth of weekends making a lid. I think the A/C system might have something to it. I remember reading about novitec doing a similar setup with a 360 with two centrifugal superchargers a few years ago. I'd probably be inclined to work in a modern condenser and compressor before I made my own decklid.

The 360 and 430 have such long runners to increase mid-range torque out of a small, naturally aspirated engine. They also have variable length as smg2 noted, so they don't lose top end. The 308 would benefit from long runners, but based on how much power you'll have, I'm not sure you'd miss it. ie, if it takes 300ftlbs at 4000 rpms to spin the tires in second gear, does it matter if you have 400ftlbs instead of 375ftlbs. They're spinning either way. If you can fit everything in under the stock lid, you'd probably be better off as you'd have more options down the road. If being the key word. That said, it would be sick to drop all the weight up top. Maybe make that a winter project next year.