Moving to Switzerland... maybe

I posted a Top Gear clip with Jeremy Clarkson's comments about Switzerland;

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136229656&postcount=10

...which was replied to by this;
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136230594&postcount=23

 

Yes, you will get away with it. Usually all the young people speak English.
You should talk to Simon and Maranello71 about this. They both live in CH.

 

Hi Xavior, how old are you, and where would you live in Switzerland? Whether you'll like it here or not depends very much on these factors.

Facts:

The countryside and mountains are beautiful, but for a foreigner to live in small communities can be very isolating. People generally have a very low level of education and they mostly only speak an unintelligible distorted german dialect that nobody else can understand, and that cannot be learned.

The big cities are better (Zürich and Geneva above all - they are the most international and cosmopolitan). Beware though - for the average Swiss a "foreigner" is generally a low-level immigrant to keep at arm's length. To be recognised and accepted as a peer in higher circles takes time. Also, even though most young people in cities speak English, among themselves they still speak the unintelligible dialect spoken by the country folk. Nobody will speak proper German unless specifically asked to. The general level of education can also be a disappointment if you come from highly cultural places like London or Tokyo. The shocking statistic is that only 15% of the Swiss ever get into a university. Zürich is similar to London in many aspects, banking and finance above all, and there is an enormous amount of wealth.

Geneva is the BIG exception - the main language is French (as everywhere south of Freiburg) everyone speaks English, the level of education is very high, there are thousands of high level expats (thanks to the HQs of the UN, WHO and other international orgs, plus many, many large corporations and banks' HQs). It would be my N.1 city of choice (if only I could find something for me down there!!). Another beautiful region is the Italian-speaking Ticino, very friendly and with great weather. You'd be very lucky if your job brought you there, though: there is very little business down there apart from tourism & small family-owned companies.

On the positive side, in Switzerland crime is almost non-existent (apart from some nasty gangs of youths roaming in big cities, and some drug-related crime), car theft unheard of, and car insurance one of the cheapest in the world. The air is very clean, and the mountains are gorgeous. Just don't expect a warm welcome.

 

Don't believe all you read

Personally I love it here. If you learn german and particularly the local swiss dialekt you will find integration much easier. I like the fact that Switzerland is 10 years behind the rest of europe in some aspects. Not many fast food outlets compared to Germany or the UK. Small local bars and restaurants rather than chains of themed rubbish. Central location in europe is a great plus. People love the outdoors, so lots to do. Personally I find Geneva and Zurich too big to live there permanently and prefer just to visit. Main benefit of living here is the cheapest second hand market in the world for Ferraris. More ferraris here per person than anywhere else on the planet

 

Easier said than done. "Proper" German is a great language, but the Swiss dialect sounds horrible, it's impossible to learn for an adult (and frankly I don't see why anyone would WANT to learn it), and you'll find different variants in almost every village, which complicates communication even further. I have completely given up even trying to understand it.

My N.1 choice remains the Geneva/Lausanne area - as I said, much more cultured, and they speak "proper" french . Otherwise Zürich is also a great cosmopolitan city where you can get away with English only (I have friends working at the university who don't speak any German after 5 years there ). If you don't like the noise of a big city and earn lots of money there are beautiful and quieter places on Lake Zürich to live, still a very short commute to the City.

Weather: very sunny and hot in June-July; mixed in August. In winter January-April is ski season, with lots of snow and generally crisp, cold air and lots of sunshine in the mountains. From both Zurich and Geneva you can reach beautiful ski areas in about 1 hour driving.

 

It is about time for a genuine Swiss to enter the discussion. Andrea, it is an insult to pretend that the general level of education in Switzerland is low. Without arguing whether the 15% of university students is correct or not, you need to know that until now (the system is just going to be changed to the Anglo-Saxon Bachelor / Master degrees), the Swiss universities have in the past covered the equivalent to Master and PH degrees only. Specifically the technical University SFIT (ETH) has excellent international reputation and is attracting students from all Europe and Middle-East / Asia. If you include all "Bachelors", the percentage is definitely considerably higher than the 15%. You are obviously completely ignorant about the Swiss system of vocational training which is second to none. My personal experience with university graduates abroad is that their level of education and skills is frequently below that of a Swiss tradesman!
Unfortunately, the level of education in our country has actually decreased statistically in the past ten years or so. Reason is the high percentage of low-level immigrants (20% of the population are immigrants) from mostly Non-European countries who are not making any effort to integrate in the Swiss society and whose children have generally problems to follow the school education by lack of interest or as a result of poor language knowledge. Some primary school classes have 70 to 90 % immigrants' children.

With regards to language: It is a fact that in the German speaking part, we speak a number of local dialects which - I do fully agree - are difficult to understand for foreigners (most of the Germans will not understand). If you take this as a sign of low education you are quite arrogant. Would you say the same about the Dutch who also speak a kind of dialect (dear Dutch and Belgium friends, please don't shoot at me) but have made it an official Language? Our children actually start learning a first "foreign" language: High German followed by (nowadays) English and a second language of Switzerland (mostly French for German and Italian speakers and vice versa). Therefore, many young Swiss do speak English whereas for my generation (I'm 62) French was dominant.
It is true: wherever you go, you have to get along with the local language if you wish to become part of the society. Otherways you will stay in a Ghetto. If i say local, i mean (high) German for this part of the Country. My wife is a foreigner too and she understands some dialect if she listens carefully, but she will never learn to speak it. If a Swiss does not use High German when speaking to a foreigner it is absolutely impolite unless he is aware that his counterpart understands the dialect. You can always find impolite people everywhere.
The Latin (not to say Mediterranean) mentality makes it generally easier to establish contacts in the French or Italian speaking areas of the country but you will be able to establish solid friendships in the German speaking part as well although it may require some more efforts from your side.

All the major cities (Zurich, Geneva, Bern, Basle) do have left/green governments, which are opposed to individual mobility by cars. The bigger (offroaders) or more powerful (sports cars) the more they are against and they do everything to make live hard for their drivers. In Zurich it is next to impossible to park a 512TR legally on a road side parking because it is larger than the markings on the pavement. Consequence: fine. Generally all over Switzerland they have installed thousands of cameras, laser speed checks etc. and you risk permanently to get fined or worse to lose the drivers licence if you break the law. You will not have much fun driving your Ferrari within legal limits on Swiss roads. Positive: the next Ferrari dealer is never far away (never more than 150 km regardless where you are).
Collector's cars (includes all Ferraris) are generally in good shape as a result of the stringent official periodical checks. Many of them are therefore (unfortunately) being exported and as a direct result, prices are pushed higher.

The cost of living is quite on the high side here. So are the average salaries. Half of the salary is spent on government or government imposed expenses (taxes, social security, health and accident insurance etc.). I understand this is rather low compared to the neighbouring countries. With the rest, you are free to finance your F and your villa. Property is rather expensive as well: An average villa may be the equivalent of 3 to 5 599 GTB depending on the location.

The climate is continental (rather warm summers and cold winters) but not very predictable. Unfortunately a big part (the central "plain") is laying below the usual winterly fog (it is the case today) while there is brilliant blue sky over the mountains.

Any more questions?

Your (genuine) Swiss Ferrari enthusiast

Peter

 

Great write up Peter. I've been here 11 years and have no problem with the local dialekt. Whereabouts are you in CH?

 

Hi Simon,

I'm in 8113 Boppelsen ZH. This is not far from Regensdorf.

Kind regards

Peter

 

Dear Peter,

I have no problem admitting the big problems afflicting my own country (Italy): corruption, an inept government, tax evasion, rampant petty crime, suffocating taxes, a very unfair distribution of wealth, thirld-world wages for highly educated people, and a weak, small-sized and short-sighted industrial sector (with few good exceptions, like Fiat, Benetton or Luxottica), an economy which is stifled by all the above problems plus a massive public deficit.

There I've been honest about my own country.

How about coming down from your high horse and being honest about your own country? It's a beautiful country and much better to live in than most of the EU, but after 6 years I have seen and experienced many things that I don't like. Above them all, the educational system, and I stand firmly by my opinion about that. I sent you a PM where I expand on my thoughts, hoping that you will understand what I really mean.

 

Andrea, you're forgetting all the good parts:

Nice weather, beautiful lakes, beautiful mountains, beautiful women, beautiful language, long coastline, great food, and a true appreciation for family, friendship and quality of life. I think I prefer living in Italy...

 

I've only snow-skiied in Switzerland, but I've got an American ex-girlfriend who lives there permanently (she's been there a decade now).

Decent snow-skiing, by the way.

She says that she has to separate her recycling and label it daily...and that there are recycling police who monitor your trash.

That and lots of cameras monitoring the cars.

She's a skier, so she digs it there, but she's also fierce and beautiful...so she can pretty well either charm her way or charge her way into just about any culture. She's anti-meek.

Does that fit your Japanese wife, though?

 

LOL!


You'll be fine there.

 

I am thinking of relocating to the EU for two years or so, and this has been a consideration. I do plan on fully immersing myself in whatever culture surrounds me.

I can imagine the Americans like myself that plan on moving may find a colder reception than most. I'll be in Paris from Dec 26th on with no definate plans.

 

LOL!