More Old Photos

Hey

One minor point. Now that we've taken fully apart the 603 P4 box from 0854 and 0846's P3 593 box we've learned that the major difference is additional oil capacity in the 603 (Deeper Sump). You're right in that the 593 P3 box was derived from the 572 F1 Box but the 603 Box was definitely derived from the 593 Box and original Le Mans ACO documents I've recently acquired answer a lot of questions and have convinced me beyond the shadow of any doubt that the 593 box currently in 0846 is the one that ran in her in 66 at Le Mans and was used as the 603 mule. I also agree with Surtees that the F1 66 was a destroked 275 P2 motor as I also believe that the 67 F1 motor was derived from the 67 P4 motor (That part Ferrari has confirmed) by destroking it as well.

Best
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According to the Brock Yates book on Enzo, Carlo Bussi disappeared in the Summer of 1978.

 

ops sorry

 

Can someone explain the change from outside headers in '66 to the headers in '67 on top of the engine? Better cooling perhaps?

 

Hi

There is some confusion over this. There was a P3 gear box typo 593 derived from the typo 572 F1 gear box that was used in the P3's in 66 which was prone to failure I suspect due to too little oil cooling and the fact that the inboard brakes also cooked the box. As an interim step ZF's were tried in the 412P's while the next typo box 603 was being developed for the P4's but the P4's got the 603 and eventually the 412's did as well.

The mule box that's in 0846 today is a P3 typo 593 that has 66 ACO stamps and repaired case damage and modifications to fit to a P4 block with the brakes modified from inboard to outboard.

This is discussed in my pdf. and additional information about the gearboxes and other things will soon be added.

http://www.glickenhaus.com/jim/project.pdf

Best

Jim

 

Yes it was.

Best

 

It appears to be simply an attempt to extract more power from the engine, by improving the airflow across the cylinder heads. The inlet and exhausts swapped position. Some weight loss and cooling might have been an acceptable by product.
Nathan

 

From the 36-valve 1966 engine to the 36-valve 1967 engine, the intakes stayed in the same position, between the camshafts.............

When the 48-valve engine was introduced at Monza in 1967, the intakes were outsude the heads, presumably for these gas-flow reasons - then the layout was reversed for the 1969 engine.

In magazines of the time, it was suggested that the centre-exhaust F1 engine allowed a narrower chassis by having more room for fuel in the pontoons either side of the engine (what Colin Chapman of Lotus used to call the 'trouser legs' of a monocoque), and a smaller frontal area with the exhausts being behind the driver's head.

Paul M

 

Hi David
There were 2 at Monaco until Bandini's dreadful crash.(2)
Parkes, Amon + Scarfiotti in Holland (3)
Same in Spa (3)
Amon + Jonathan Williams in Mexico (2)
Amon on his own, or none at all in the others
Nathan

 

They missed South Africa completely - then at Spa, Parkes was badly injured after crashing on oil from Stewart's BRM and Scarfiotti was immediately behind and was so unnerved that he temporarily retired from single-seaters. (Oddly he came back for the Italian GP but in the second Eagle-Weslake, and in 1968 he was driving for Cooper in F1 at the time of his death at a hillclimb in a Porsche).

Ferrari then didn't think any other of their drivers was up to F1, until the end of the season when they let Williams drive the spare at the Mexican GP.

BRM and Cooper ran 2-car teams; there was a semi-works BRM for the Parnell team and a private 2-litre car occasionally, and several private Coopers for Bonnier, Siffert (Rob Walker team), Ligier before he bought a Brabham, and Silvio Moser. Ickx made his GP debut in a Cooper at Monza, subbing for injured Pedro Rodriguez.

Paul M

 

Hi David,

You are correct in all accounts. Fantastic photo by the way, one of my favorites in the whole thread. No Ferraris finished at Le Mans in 1955.

-Jarrett

 

I also believe that was the only race that Jaguar D Type ever entered, then to be separated and used for all sorts of test mules ... only recently to be er, reborn.

See even old Jaguars er, reappear
Pete

 

Hello everybody,

I just discovered FerrariChat.com and I'm especially overwhelmed by this wonderfull thread....

It will take a long - good - time to watch all these photos.

Currently I'm building a model of 250 GTO sn 3705 GT at Le Mans 1962.
It had a small bright stripe next to the red part of the French Tricolore. I don't know if this was white or yellow. I'm confused because I have photos of the restored car - and sometimes it's white and sometimes it's yellow....

Can you help me?

Thank you for replies, have fun.

 

Till,

In my opinion it is white, it is as if the red was laid down over the white and a border of white was left to distinguish the stripe from the body color.

Gramps

 

I don't have good period photos, but on the current restored 3705GT the extra thin stripe is definitely white.

-Jarrett

 

Gramps,

thank you for this fast answer.
do you have photos of this race?

the attached photo shows a model of model factory hiro - yellow.

Monday I will post some more.

Till
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Hello,

I met Noblet's son, who has lots of pics of this car. Stripe is white.

Yellow one came from a bad printing of a French book by EPA, and then French modelmaker AMR made it Yellow; all makers (except one) later did the same... so confusing.

By the way, this car has some specs, not easy to see on pics, as small light over front Prancing horse, and a large plate under fuel tank, looking like a small wing. Also it featured a video cam during practices, but don't know if they used during race.

Etienne

 

Hello Etienne - welcome to FerrariChat. It's good to have such a respected model-maker join.
Thank you for the clarification on the 250GTO colours. Do you know if the Le Mans video cam film still exists? It would be great to see.
Nathan