In for a penny, in for a nickel too! | FerrariChat

In for a penny, in for a nickel too!

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by ylshih, Dec 15, 2006.

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  1. ylshih

    ylshih Shogun Assassin
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/14/business/14pennies.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

    NYTimes.com
    December 14, 2006
    Rising Metal Prices Prompt Ban on Melting and Export of Coins
    By MATTHEW HEALEY

    The United States Mint, concerned that rising metal prices could lead to widespread recycling of pennies and nickels, has banned melting or exporting them.

    The Mint is also testing dozens of cheaper alternative metal compositions in the expectation that Congress will mandate a change when it meets in the new year.

    According to calculations by the Mint, the metal value of pennies, which are made of copper-coated zinc, is now more than one cent. The metal value of 5-cent coins, made from a copper-nickel blend, is up to 7 cents. Adding in the costs of manufacturing means the Mint now spends 1.73 cents for every penny and 8.74 cents for every nickel it makes.

    Until 1982, pennies were made of 95 percent copper. The commodity metal value of one of those coins, which still make up a large percentage of the pennies in circulation, is 2.13 cents, according to the Mint.

    If even 1 percent of the 150 billion pennies and 20 billion nickels in circulation were claimed for salvage, replacing them would cost taxpayers $43 million, the Mint estimates.

    In an interview yesterday, Edmund C. Moy, director of the Mint, said officials were aware of only a few people asking if it was legal to melt coins for their metal value. Without the ban, which takes effect tomorrow, it would be.

    The new ban also forbids exporting pennies or nickels in any significant quantities. While the Mint is not concerned about tourists’ pocket change or numismatic collections, it wants to block wholesale export of coins to countries where recycling them for their metal content could be economically viable.

    Penalties for violating the ban can include a $10,000 fine and up to five years in jail. “We want to make it clear to anyone considering this that it’s not worth it,” Mr. Moy said.
     
  2. TheBigEasy

    TheBigEasy F1 World Champ
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    What ever happened to that argument a long time ago to eliminate penny's from our money supply and round everything up to the nearest 5?
     
  3. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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  4. Dubai Vol

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    Way back in the '80s, military bases in Germany had eliminated the penny. Everything was rounded to the nearest nickel: it worked fine. Here in Dubai everything is rounded to the nearest 25 fils (about a nickel) and it works fine here too.
     
  5. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    Military bases around the SE Asia area don't really use pennies or any other coinage for that matter, occasionally you will get some but not very often. For change they give 5,10 and 25 cent "gift certificates", the cashiers will usually round whichever direction to the closest .05
     
  6. Whisky

    Whisky Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Pretty soon 'money' wil be all-but gone in lieu of cash cards.

    I pay NO bills by check or cash anymore, it's all online, the only things I use cash for I can use a card on: gas, groceries, movies and entertainment, dining out, I just don't like the idea of using plastic (in whatever form) for 'everything'.

    On the other hand, kids need cash...
     
  7. wax

    wax Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Let the hoarding begin.

    Brother, can you rub a spare pair of wooden dimes for your thoughts?
     
  8. UroTrash

    UroTrash Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I think that would put a whack on the underground economy.
     
  9. ylshih

    ylshih Shogun Assassin
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    Just noticed this part of the article. There are 300 million people in the US, give or take. 150 billion pennies is 500 pennies per person! 20 billion nickels is 67 nickels per person! Given that's an average, that means there are some pretty full penny jars. The Mint is cranking out coinage at a 70-90% loss, just to fill peoples' jars because the general public doesn't want to bother to keep the coins they have in circulation!
     
  10. Whisky

    Whisky Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Don't forget all the 'lost' change, and don't forget all the money in collector's hands, I know I have 5 each of all of the state quarters - those are out of circulation 'forever'.
     
  11. Dubai Vol

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    You are the poster boy for that whole scam: "Let's get everybody in the country to take 50 quarters out of circulation!" And you've gone them one better, or four better as it were. Those coins will never be worth anything.

    Sorry to have to be the one to break it to you. If it makes you feel any better, Mrs Dubai got in on the craze when we visited two years ago. I'm too chicken to tell her, so you get the bad news in lieu. Sorry mate!
     
  12. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
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    the gov't loves the interest free loans. same with the post office.
     
  13. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
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    at a 1 cents spread, how many pennies to a need to smelt to make a profit ?
     
  14. yzee

    yzee F1 Veteran
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    My consulting firm is doing storm water runoff studies and future pollution abatement planning for a large scrap yard. The owners profits are staggering.
     
  15. Ciao Bello 348

    Ciao Bello 348 Formula 3

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    So lets assume you did melt down pennies and nickles. How could it be determined that they were, in fact, US currency and not old copper pipes from plumbing or such? Not that I plan on melting down my $100 penny collection in the hopes to double my money and retire--but seriously. How would they know? And who is "they"?

    There are plenty of metal recyclers in my area. I can bring them old cast iron radiators and pipes and they weigh them and give you cash.
     
  16. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Ah, the lazy consumer. ;)

    We've gone wholesale to electronic transactions so we don't have to do math -- 16.37 is .... a ten, a five, a one, a quarter, a dime and two pennies ... oh heck, charge it! :p

    And then there's the vanishing "change purse" -- an unfortuate name, as macho men don't carry "purses". So digging in your pocket for pennies is time consuming.

    And then there's perceptional pricing: $19.95 isn't quite $20, right? -- until you add sales tax, and then using cash gets you a lot of change that winds up on your dresser.

    So: get a change purse and start paying with exact change?

    How many register jockeys would have to count on their fingers to figure out how much you gave them? At a 7-11 once during a power outage, the clerk wouldn't accept exact change without the register to add up the two items for him.

    The cost of lower education. :rolleyes:

    One odd thing: Back in the '70s, a standard computer program exercise was to compute the change for any given amount. (Enter a figure, and the program prints out the number of bills and coins of each type. With correct plural syntax, of course.) But even today, registers don't have this feature.

    But I worry about that term, "rounding tax": The cynic in me thinks that some button sorter has figured a new way to tap the economy: charge merchants a percentage of the "round up". Money for nuthin.
     
  17. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove FChat Assassin
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    Ok I am a nerd but I actually started dividing my pennies back in 1990!! Any made before 1982 in one jar, the rest with the rest of the change.

    I now have over 600 lbs of all copper pennies in my basement.
     
  18. ylshih

    ylshih Shogun Assassin
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    600 lbs = 273 Kgrams

    273 Kgrams / 3.1 grams per copper penny = 88,000 pennies

    Face value = $880

    Copper value (@ 2.13 cents per penny) = $1875

    Potential profit = $995 (less freight and smelting costs!)
     
  19. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
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    what are the salvge yards currently paying for a lbs of copper ?
     

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