348 with Milky Coolant | FerrariChat

348 with Milky Coolant

Discussion in '348/355' started by albert328gts, Dec 18, 2006.

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  1. albert328gts

    albert328gts Formula 3
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    I have a buddy that lives in Northern California, he owns a 1990 348tb. Approximately 30k miles on it. Well kept, always serviced, ususally by Ferrari of San Francisco, recently had a major/30K service, has put about 1000 miles on his car since, recently saw his temp go up, not overheat, but much higher then normal, and it is 40 degrees up there. Checked his oil looked good and clean. Tiny bubbles, but that is normal. Checked his coolant and it was milky? Was told by Ferrari of San Francisco he may have a Head issue on his car. Any idea the cost of doing the top end on a 348? Ferrari of San Francisco, said somewhere above $10K ? That seems to be outrageous to me, what do you guys think?
     
  2. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
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    It sounds like a head gasket is bad. Unfortunately one has to remove the motor to get the head off and redo the timming belt. 10k sounds high, but it will be around 5k-6k on the better end of estimates. Sorry to hear about that :(
     
  3. albert328gts

    albert328gts Formula 3
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    Thats what I thought about 4K to 6K max... Shame, he just had a major service...
     
  4. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    348's cool so well that oil in the coolant wouldn't per se be the cause of the engine temp shooting up.

    That fact, combined with the effort, time, and expense of the Major Service + top end rebuild would cause me to *first* flush the coolant from the radiators, re-fill with 50/50 Prestone premix + Redline's Water Wetter (1 bottle) as well as change the engine oil to Red Line's 5W40 (save the old oil for inspection).

    Next, verify that both radiator fan fuses in the passenger-side footwell are good, and replace both radiator fan relays with new Bosch 113's. Likewise, replace the Veglia thermoswitch on the right side radiator fan.

    Verify that your head bolts are torqued properly.

    Then I'd start the engine, drive around for a bit, and check if the fans are kicking on and that the engine is cooling properly.

    If so, then when the engine was cold I'd re-check the radiator fluid. Ferrari engines use a sand-casting process that can leave sand deep in the engine for some time...eventually contaminating coolant. The above process gives you one shot at cleaning that out just in case that's the "milky" problem instead of the head gasket.

    Inspect the new coolant and the old oil. Compare the results of those inspections with the results of the engine running (e.g. cooling properly or not) with the new fluids. At that point you should know if your friend needs a top end rebuild or not.
     
  5. albert328gts

    albert328gts Formula 3
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    NoDoubt, great information, I have already passed it along. That would be some better news. Lets assume you are correct, it would take this long for this "sand-casting process that can leave sand deep in the engine for some time" to come up so much later on in the engines life?

    Mind you according to him, the car never once over heated in a spirited drive, just went over the half way mark according to him. And that got him thinking, I live in Los Angeles, my car is always in that temp range. I guess for colder climates they are use to their 348's running much colder. Good thing he checked.
     
  6. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

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    348 engines cool very well.

    But we don't really know how he defines "milky." Lots of things could cause it. It could be as you say, a blown head gasket (one would expect other poor running conditions as well as contamination in the oil, if so, though) or from header bolts that aren't properly torqued (perhaps allowing seap-age).

    But it could be that a prior owner used one of the liquid "Radiator fix" sealers which has decided to degrade now, or it could be from the original factory sand casting, or it could be a rusty heat exchanger for his cockpit heater, or from a rusty radiator, etc.

    I'm just saying that if it was *me*, that I'd flush and re-fill the radiator on the off change that the problem wasn't a blown headgasket. There just isn't a big downside to a quick flush, re-fill and drive test if he is otherwise planning on pulling the motor and rebuilding the top-end, anyway!
     
  7. albert328gts

    albert328gts Formula 3
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    Thanks, its amazing how much information we (348 Brotherhood ) has and how much you guys are willing to share this information!
     
  8. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I agree with ND that there are a few things to be done before the motor is taken apart and flushing the system well is a good place to start. The cooling systems in 348's do have very good reserve capacity and are not prone to overheating easily. In any event some diagnostics need to take place before an estimate should be prepared. The shotgun approach often leads to desired results but all to often at too high a price.
     
  9. Jagbuff

    Jagbuff Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
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    In addition to the above, you can get a CO test kit that detects CO in the coolant when engine is running, however, the best test I know is to do a leak down and check coolant for air bubbles being blown through.

    Somewhat funny side bar, I was having having overheating problem with my prior car (Ferrari but not 348), so I did a leakdown and scrutinized the overflow tank for bubbles, nothing not a single micro bubble for the first 5 cylinders - feeling pretty good - get ready for #6 my face 5 inches from the tank, turn on the air (100psi remember) - next thing I know I get a face full of coolant and a geyser shooting up to the ceiling of the garage.... didn't need to do much more investigating after that...
     
  10. albert328gts

    albert328gts Formula 3
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    So he got his car back from the dealer, seems that they cant figure out. No oil in the the water, no water in the oil. Oil is super clean, and small bubbles are normal according to Ferrari of North America. Did all sorts of tests, car runs cool, all seems ok. They are puzzled, never seen anything like it according to Ferrari of San Francisco? Could it of been the Sand Casting process used when manufacturing the block? Or could of someone at sometime used a Stop Leak product that is now breaking up? Thats all they could come up, after flushing the system 3 times, compression test, leak down and pressure test the whole system, changed the oil, nothing.... No charge to him, since he had the major done there a few months ago, told to drive the car and just look at the temp guage, and possibly bring it back in 2 weeks so they could go over the coolant again. They said it was not an oily product, but something more sandy and gritty, and thick. He is now thoroughly confused
     
  11. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

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    Point #6 at this link would be my guess: http://www.barsleaks.net/how2works.html


    "If there are any other brands of stop-leak products in your market, follow the same procedure as described above with these other brands. They will also stop leaks, but there will be an accumulation of residue which actually can plug up the radiator core or other parts of cooling system."


    ...But if not that, then my second guess would be the sand-casting process.

    Just make sure that your buddy's 348 isn't overheating or losing coolant. That would be something else entirely.
     

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