There is one feature of my car which i do not appreciate: the precision of the steering. When i drove the car the first time after pick-up from the pre-owner, i felt really uncomfortable on the motorway. There was excessive backlash in the steering box. After the adjustment, the situation has improved but nevertheless driving requires high attention e.g. on narrow roads or when passing wide trucks on the motorway. In direct comparison, the 400i steering is less precise than the much older MB 280SL and much worse than the Audi quattro. How do other drivers rate the steering precision of the Ferrari? If it is a genuine feature of this car series there is not much chance to get it improved. If it is individual to my car, I will, as a next step, have the geometry of the front suspension checked. My car has never been involved in a crash and it has run only 45'000 kms. Thanks in advance for your feedback Peter Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hello Moserpe, you should indeed get your steering checked. It sounds like you might have a problem with your tie rod ends or bushings in general. The first thing I did when I bought my 365 GT4 2+2 last year was to exchange all the worn parts in the entire suspension. I, for my part, think that the steering is as good as any contemporary car, except maybe when you drive at very high speeds. Here the power steering feels a little soft compared to new cars. Other than that, I find the handling absolutely exceptional for a car of that age and weight. By the way, are you absolutely certain that your car only has 45.000 km..? Please don´t take any offense in my asking, but for me this is always very hard to tell, unless the car has a spotless maintenance record. best regards, Howard
I haven't noticed any steering issues on my 78 400GT. It has 106,000 km on the clock. I feel it's as good, if not better than my other cars, in fact.
Your car should be "rock solid". I had the front end re-built on my old 400i. It was as tight as could be. I felt quite comfortable driving it with one finger hooked over the wheel at speeds in excess if 100mph. Sounds to me that you've got some issues (worn parts) with the suspension/steering. These cars are HEAVY and will wear out front end parts very fast.
Thanks for all your quick comments. There is nothing worn in the steering system. The car has well documented 45'000 kms only and it is fresh from the authority's periodical check. They are very picky here, specifically with reference to any play in suspension and steering system joints. The only problem I could imagine are the rubber bushes of the suspension arms which could have some aging problems without creating noticeable play. On the other hand, i'm quire sure that a wrong setting of toe-in and/or caster angle would have negative influence on steering precision. Since you are all telling me that the car should be tight on the road, I will have these issues checked. I was thinking about asking the local Ferrari workshop for their opinion but based on your comments i conclude that my car does not behave as it should. Peter
Peter, Did you have your steering checked or the entire front suspension? If any of the suspension parts are worn, it will result in vague steering. Regards, Art S.
My 400i has fairly tight steering. It's very heavy, though. In comparison, my girlfriend's 1970 280SL has light steering that tends to wander, even after a front end alignment.
My 365 has a light feel to it compared to the other cars, but it is still direct and communicative. Have the rack checked as well as all of the rubber bits looked at. Mileage and age affect these components.
I agree that front end suspension and steering geometry are the two main factors in the problems described, but don't forget that most of us are driving old tires, they don't wear because of driving but because of age. My 412 1988 has Michelin tires from 1999! They were not the softest when new and now they are closer to hockey pucks.
Lazaruslong, Good point. I am looking at an 82 400I that I will most likly buy this Friday. I liked every thing about the car or could live with every thing on this car, but the steering, it felt like an old Chevy Impla. The tires or really old and worn and that makes alot of since to look there first. By the way I do not belive 400I's have rack and pinon steering they have a gear box.
The steering system is definitely not rack and pinion (unfortunately). It is of the worm screw / pinion type, which does never offer the precision of rack / pinion steering. The MB 280SL has a similar type of steering but it feels less vague compared to the Ferrari although the Michelin tires are close to 20 years old! It is true that the tires of our collection cars get very old before they are worn, which is definitely affecting the grip. But does it really influence the precision (feeling) of the steering? The TRX' es are from 2001, with full depth profile and who would have these expensive things replaced on a car which gets driven every now and then under good road conditions only? By the way: The tires of my Audi quattro are next to 10 years old and the steering precision is perfect. The car follows actually the track the driver is thinking about, without the necessity to "work on the wheel". In the meantime, I have reduced the backlash of the steering gear to the min. (just before the steering tends to get hard) and I will report the result after a test drive, once the road conditions will allow. Thanks for all your comments and my best wishes for a Happy New Year Peter
Power steering in the 365/400/412 is terrible. If you do not believe me, compare a 1980 Ferrari 400I with a 1980 BMW using the same ZF components. The Ferrari has no road feel and a severd dead spot goint straight.
Again, I don't know what you guys are talking about. My 1973 365 GT4 2+2 has excellent handling. As a matter of fact it was the one thing that surprised me most about a car of this weight and age. It holds the road perfectly, even at speeds over 200 km/h on the Autobahn. It is very responsive and precise with a new set of Michelin XWX's. I was driving a 1985 635 CSi BMW for quite a while and I don't feel much of a difference, except when you drive it at very high speeds, when the power steering offers comparably little resistance, as in modern cars where the resistance increases with speed. But I guess that just didn't exist in those times. Other than that, in terms of precision and roadholding, there appears to be no difference to me. I am convinced that there's something wrong with either your steering or your suspension. If you had said that the steering of the quattro feels tighter than the Ferrari, then I'd say OK, maybe it does...but the 280 SL? There's no way... I would check with a local dealership for advice. If push comes to shove, exchanging all the parts prone to wear, such as shocks, bushes, wheelbarings and rod ends shouldn't be more than 500-600 Euros for the front axle. Plus labour... Howard
HI Howard, I drove the car yesterday after I had eliminated the remaining backlash of the steering completely (in center position only; considerable backlash remains in the end positions, which is typical for this type of steering system). It feels now better on the road, specifically if the tarmac is perfectly level but it tends to follow the tracks created by heavy vehicles on some roads, which is not untypical for cars with wide tires. Now I would say there is not much difference to the 280SL. I had a friend who is enthusiastic BMW driver driving the Ferrari and his comment was that he is used to such steering from the older BMW's (this was before I made the latest adjustments). Most probably, I'm simply spoiled by the perfect road holding and steering of the front- and four wheel driven Audis. Since there is no play in any of the front suspension joints or wheel bearings (which would be very surprising with the low mileage) the only influence could be from the rubber bushes (Flanblocs) in the fixation of the lower arms to the chassis. With this age they are anyway candidates for a change like all other relevant rubber parts of the car. Peter
Peter, I agree with all the other posters, your car should be much better. A GOOD 4 wheel alignment is the place to start. By good I mean that all the steering and suspension componets are checked first. Don't forget tire pressures! All four corners set for toe, camber and caster. Unfortunetly many shops do only the toe and call it done. Love your ur-Quattro, I have one of the few here in the US. My "beater" 5000 TQ has about 250K miles now, and yes, it still steers straight. Mike
When I first bought my '84 400i, I too was concerned with the handling. The front end seemed to "float" at speeds in excess of 80mph or so, and consequently I was bit disappointed with the handling of the car and rarely drove above 70mph. However, once I put a new set of TRXs (oh gee, I hope this post doesn't revive the old TRX thread again!) on the front, all concerns were relieved and the car is perfectly tight and tracks well; I now regularly drive it over 100mph and it is perfectly steady. I got into my MINI last week for the first time in several months - now that car is sensitive! Fun to drive, but definitly a two-handed job at high speed. Brennan '84 400i #47583
In the meantime I have replaced all rubber elements of the front- and the rear-suspension. Re-aligned the front wheel geometry and reduced the play of the steering gear. Now the car drives much more stable. On perfectly flat pavement, it is close to the 456 GT, or the AUDI quattro: I'm quite satisfied now. Cost of the new rubber elements was exorbitant by the way! Peter
365/400/412's eat front end parts. Many people who go buy one of the low priced cars here in the states are shocked when they discover how expensive the rebuild of the front end parts are.
Your car is definately not right. Be careful also of taking too much lash out of steering gear as you'll wear the gears quickly. From your posts I get the feeling ypur car is twitchy and requires constant correction. Not enough caster, toe in or worn bushings will cause this. Don't overlook REAR bushings as the rear axle moving about will have the car feeling very funny indeed. A dragging brake can also cause steering problems. As everyone here has stated, steering precision isn't an issue with these cars.
Hi Ross, as I said, the car is now as good as it can ever be. The major step of improvement was achieved by replacement of all the rear suspension rubber bushes, but also the front wheel alignment had a positve effect. Peter Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Still waiting to get a quote from the shock rebuilders, all the bits are ready to go back once those get back. I'll try and get some pictures later today, but I finally started down the rebuild path. Did wonders for handling on the V8s.
