328 4 cylinder!

Due to the "inclement" weather in the uk, my 328 has not seen much action recently.However today i managed a great drive until half a mile from home when the power curve dropped to one as flat as a witch's tit.The exhaust note has changed too, so i am guessing she is running on one bank. I am no mechanic but could it be coil,ecu or fuelling? Oil pressure never altered, but i don't want to drive it to my mech for fear of more damage.Any ideas greatly appreciated!

 

witch's tit?

 

Yes..erm very flat.Witchs over here are known to be lacking in the "top bollocks" department.

 

Does it sound very irregular?
Dirt in fuel?
Humidity in the ECU?
Best thing to do: bring a mech over to your place, let him do some tests, if possible he'll drive it to the dealership, eventually he can fix something at your place( loose contacts for instance...)
Good luck!

 

All the witches I know are pretty well endowed. Must be an American thing?

And your car's problem sounds electrical. Do Electrical 101: Are you getting spark? Are you getting timing? If yes, then look for fuel delivery.

Ken

 

happened to a friend with a 308. Doesn't sound like it's missing, but has no power? The local dealer diagnosed, replaced the coil and sending unit on one bank, was fine. Cost was around $2500, I think. Probably could be done for less by a local knowledgeable mechanic.

 

this has happened to me 3 times.

It runs amazingly smooth and quiet with little power = loss of bank. In a 328, there is only one ECU, so it is usually a coil pack.

Loss of power and rough = fuel delivery problem, or rarely a broken rotor/cap

You will find it will start on one side only, so to check: Try starting it with only one coil wire hooked up at a time. If it starts on one but not the other, there you are. If it starts on each of both coils, then it's not the ignition probably.

Good luck and let us know

 

Thanx to all.Snj5 you have hit the nail on the head...the car seems even smoother-if it is the coil do you know the magneti marelli part number? From Ferrari the coil is about £300, i hope to find it cheaper by going direct.Thanks again. I hope the ecu is ok-i know the 308 have 2 and the 328 only one so as one bank runs perfectly i guess this must be ok?It amazed me that is still idled perfectly, just very down on the gee gees!

 

Hi, 328Matt.

Before I begin, let me tell you that I am not as technically skilled as some of the people in this forum, that said, I recommend you check your spark plug cones -- I don't know the technical name of those things, but they are the plastic cones at the end of the cables that connect to the heads of your plugs.

If you notice little black char mark dots, then just give each of them a slight rotation before connecting them.

The reason I recommend this because you mentioned "inclement" weather.

I experienced the same thing when I got caught in the rain in my 328. I lost power and the car did not feel or sound right.

When I brought it to my mechanic, he showed them to me and replaced my cables and cones. He mentioned something like the electricity from the spark plug created a little hole in the cone and electricity is escaping from that little charred black mark.

(Please, someone with tech experience jump in here and keep me honest because I coming off stupid now ;-))

Anyway, he mentioned, if I'm on the road and it happens again, usually due to moisture/rain, then twist the cones, and that will solve the problem until I can get to the mechanic for replacement.

This is one of the reasons I don't water down my car when I detail her.

Give that a try -- it's a temporary fix; though, you will need to replace the cones and cables if they are the culprit. Good luck.

/s/ Alfonso

 

I knew that a witch's tit could get cold especially in a brass brassiere but I never really thought of them being flat too. Oh well I learned something new today. But i did date a witch once and hers were not flat....... but anyway you mentioned a 328 I think . I would clean the contacts on the ecu's and also the contacts on the wires for the coils and see if that helps.

 

Yes - it idles perfectly on a single bank because of the racing spec "flat crank" which treats each side as a separate, balanced 4 cyl engine. Your ECU is probably just fine.

While I do not know a source on the coil, one thing you can try is replacing the little triangular controller on top of the coil - it is a common Bosch part and can be matched at a parts store. Doesn't always work, but can -- and at quite a savings.

Typically, "plug extenders" that have burned through give symptoms of missing and rough running.

Good luck, and let us know.

 

Once you've isolated which bank has the oops, using snj5's tip (maybe you already have?), look at the crank (TDC pickup) sensors.

I may be dead wrong about this...But, although the 328 has a single ECU, I believe it still uses (2) crank sensors, one for each bank, like the 308's?? If so, check out the condition of the wiring and connections of the sensor for the bank that isn't firing. These things go bad alot, especially on the forward bank due to heat damage.

I remember that 328's do have two sensors, but I can't recall the scheme ---one for RPM / the other for 1/4 TDC, (or) one for 1/4 TDC / one for 5/8 TDC / and with RPM detected some other way? The 308's have three --- one for RPM / one for 1/4 TDC / and one for 5/8 TDC.

If the car only has one TDC sensor, ignore everything I just said!

 

I do seem to remember 2 sensors as well. Although it takes a long time to do, you can rule in a coil failure and rule out the sensors by swapping the entire coil packs one side to the other - all wiring and coil wires.

If the dead bank changes it's the coil
If the dead bank stays the same, it's the sensor.

You just saved $400 in diagnostics.

Good luck - let us know what happens

 

Precisely...BINGO!

That is always what we do on the 308's to sort that out quickly! You can also (being very careful to keep track of the connections you're making) isolate problems to either entire ignition circuit (1/4 vs. 5/8), all the way back to the ECU, by swapping sensor connections and ECU connections. This effectively swaps both entire harnesses and components --- runs the 1/4 bank off of the 5/8 components and vice versa.

Since the injected 308's ran on twin ECU's (MM DigiPlex units) as well, you can also determine if either ECU has a problem this way. This was very useful when the cars first came out because the first generation of DigiPlexes had problems and were crapping out all over the place.

I didn't purchase my 81 308 new, but the service records indicate that it had (3) DigiPlexes replaced by the factory within it's 1st year on the road!!!

And, some people rave about MM ignitions -- LOL!

 

As an aside, while using the Mondial 3.2 as a daily driver, I've had three coil pack failures. To regain confidence in driving it, as many know, I converted to a single Mallory electronic distributor with MSD. No more single bank failure, the whole thing cost about as much as a coil and is now bullet proof reliable for 4 years. Parts plentiful and inexpensive. Not original, but this ignition always starts and never quits. Confidence restored.
best
rt
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328Matt,

Funny, my dad used to say "cold as a witches tit", never heard "...flat as..."

In any case, I've had one bank or another cut out on my 288 GTO and F40. In the F40 it was the TDC sensor. In the GTO, one time was a TDC sensor, the other time the relay panel was the culprit. The relay panels of that era Ferrari are poorly constructed. I just resoldered a few bad spots and the GTO hasn't dropped a bank in at least eight years, maybe more.

Steve

 

Also, in the Ferrari Dealer Mechaninic Heresay Dept., I heard that a few times a small batch of bad coils would make into a series run.

good luck!

 

Going to have a good go swapping things around today. Thanks for your time-it shows how valuable a resource this forum can be, especially to the less mechanically inclined such as myself...thanks-will let you know

 

Just to let you know how i am getting on....Cleaned up all the coil leads, had the dizzy caps off and cleaned everything up.Car has ran great for 300 miles..then happened again while sat in traffic.Got it round the corner,switched off,got a spare plug to try and find which bank it was and firing on 8 again.Bastard!I cannot even diagnose which bank it is.If it drops onto 4 it will stay on 4,if you switch off it comes back on 8.If it is a coil would that just be either working or broken? I am tending to think it could be the amplifier on one of the coils.Cannot be fuel related as it runs great on 4 cylinders,cannot be tdc sensor for same reason,cannot be ht leads as would lose 1 cylinder not 4.Could be the lead betwen coil and distributer...but would that not cause some rough running? The problem i have is the car is now running fine,how do you trace a fault on a working car?

 

I would carry a timing light and spare battery in the trunk, so when it happens, just pull over and check for spark on all leads while it is running.

 

Typically if a coil fails it doesn't miraculously "heal".

 

Matthew, sounds like a problem I was having a couple of weeks back with my 88 Mondial. After doing some diagnosing I found I needed a coil pack. Shortly thereafter the car started running bad intermittently. After some advice from some great F-chatters it was determined it was the fuel injection relay that was failing.
Read this:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140046
I hope this helps. Good luck!

 

Thanks for your input, just to refresh the car does not run rough during these episodes, it is really smooth as it is behaving like an in line 4, it is definitley losing one bank but like you i am struggling to find which bank to concerntrate on.If it was the fuel injection relay i am sure the car would run like a bag of nails?

 

Correct, very rare. It not the actual coil BTW, it is the transistor on the top that is the culprit on those.

 

308 has 3 sensors. 1 for rpm and the other 2 are for timing for each bank.
328 has 2 sensors, 1 for rpm and the other for timing both banks. If either fails the motor stops.



I an very suspicious of a primary signal loss to one of the coils. Could be a coil though. Figure out which bank is the culprit and swap coils.