What are your recommended belt change intervals?

On this board this topic is hotter than a ball park frank in July! It never ends!

Look in the technical section and also do a thorough search as there is a ton of threads on this same subject.

You know the story of a dead horse!!!

 

This thread should help. It has much of the very knowledgeable Rifledriver's comments. He's the MAN when it comes to this issue.


http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135178

 

It used to be every 5 years or 30K miles. Ferrari changed the interval last year to 3 year or 30K. The 5 year/30K mark is what I run off of...

 

Had mine changed at 30K (car is a 1998). The original belts looked pretty much like new. I still have them and am considering selling them as new....Just kidding...But seriously, I think I could have gone another few years and tens of thousands of miles more with them. Two years ago I replaced the belts on a 2001 550 which I had owned at the time. That car had 30k on the odo and the old belts looked new as well. So,in other words, don't panic...Also, drive the car as often as you can.A car does not like to sit idle for too long.Enjoy!!

 

I have heard from two dealers that for 575's the time is back to 5 years. I have seen nothing in print, however. IMHO is you belt change is based on time rather than mileage: you are not driving it enough. (I have had two belt changes in 11 months. The last was belts only and an oil change. An unusual service combination.)

Steve

 

and was concerned about the belts too. My case is they were done last June, so I'm not worried.
BUT
having done many dealings with Ferrari of SF, they [of course] always tout the party line of 3 years 30k whichever is soonest.

Dealer I bought the car from, is a very large [largest?] wholeseller of F's and he almost laughed at me on the new numbers.

Gotta agree. My other Ferrari had belts that were a bit worn, but NOT so much so that doing it at 3 years should be a panic. I say mileage BUT, BUT
drive the thing......otherwise the belts 'might' be a problem.

I almost believe Ferrari put in the new belt stats based on newer drivers NOT driving the car......I mean my 'new' 456 is 10 9 years old and looks factory new, 27,000 miles [THAT's not only a joke but a true shame...I'm using it as a daily driver!!!!!!!!!!!]
also,
seen two of these in the San Rafael Ferrari shop last month getting ENTIRE engine rebuilds!! yikes, but their mileage was so low, that if I had a dollar for every mile on those cars, I couldn't afford gas, let alone a F [well, I do live in the bay area]
Ferrari had me scared enough to have my other F serviced for a 3 year issues on belts etc. OF COURSE I also put in new tensioner, water pump alternator etc. juuuusstt to not have to dump the engine again a few months later.
What does all this mean.
Check your car often,
get a 2nd take
drive the car normally [well HW 37 screems for 100+mph.....thank god for Escort]
and drive the car often, that is, no garage queens......
think 5 years, or 30k is ok [especially with todays technology made belts]

 

TSB #1003 Dated 10-02 for 12 cylinder cars states 3 years or 30k miles

TSB #1215 Dated 5-04 For 8 cylinder models states 3 years or 30k miles

Both are still in effect and reflect the official position.

 

What would do if you owned the 12 or 8 cyliinder car, Brian?

 

Are you driving a LOT of miles to change the belts within 11 months?

 

I own a TR.

Just to be sure I am understood because I am so ofter misquoted here I will preface that with a few comments.

At the bottom of my repair orders what I wrote in post 9 that is printed in red just below the signature line. I will never tell someone else to ignore Ferrari's limits on belt replacement. Anyone who does should give it to you in writing so that they may be held responsible if you break a belt. I also do not sell belt jobs based on it. I tell people of my experiences, tell them what I would do with their car with their conditions and let them decide. I also drop them as a client if they are not performing what I consider to be appropriate levels of service. My reputation is based on their cars performance and I will not risk my reputation on their bad decisions or inability to maintain their car. No hard feelings, just that I think each of our interests are better served by not continuing that relationship.

On my car based on my usage I feel comfortable doing them every 5 years. I have seen far to many problems letting them go much longer than that on any of the cars. We have all seen them go many more years without question but the incidence of failure is too high for my taste. I am also one of those that will not own a car or motorcycle that I am not comfortable getting in at a moments notice and driving coast to coast. If I applied the cost factor as many here do figuring the cost of a valve job is less than several belt jobs that degree of reliability just does not appeal to me. If I owned a 355 or a 360 with as quickly as those motors rev and as hot under the hood as they are I would be doing them every 3 years as Ferrari suggests. I have seen too many failures very close to the 5 year window. We are just now finishing a job on a 355 with exactly 5 year old belts. They were stretched out enough to allow the cams on one bank to slip one tooth out of time. He noticed a loss of power and brought it in right away. He was a very lucky man. It is not the first failure I have seen on 355s in the 5 year window. People say Ferrari changed from 5 years to 3 years to make the dealers more money, well, no, as a matter of fact they did it for the reason I just outlined. If I was tracking a car that would make me want to change belts more often.

Not taking into consideration the cars I do fix I get calls about once a month from owners of, usually older cars, that broke a belt. They ask how much to fix. The price so shocks them they either go to some shade tree guy to get it patched up or just sell. Honestly they are usually people that just cannot afford the car to begin with but information of the sort often handed out here prevents them from knowing that. It's too bad, if nothing else it gives the cars a bad reputation that many believe.

 

Sychro: First change was for time, the second for miles.

 

latest issue of SCM has a blurb on it by sheehan

 

Having spent a great deal of time this last month on a 575 T belt issue I can say there is a valid arguement arising for the 3 yr span on the 12 cylinder cars.

A lot of time was spent watching and measuring the engine growth and resulting belt tension (something in the range of 40 measurements taken with a Steager gauge and a frequency tester) as the engine heated up. Needless to say the results are quite surprising as to how tight the belts actually get with the engine at operating temps. This makes a very good arguement for heating the engine up slowly and making sure the temps are up before flogging the car.

With the lack of hydrostatic tensioners on the 12 cylinder cars there is no "belt takeup" allowance which the 8 cyl. cars have.

One thing that was identified on this engine was the need for accurate belt tension measuring equipment as it was very easy to set the belt too tight using the factory recommended method. That said, the 575 factory specs noted in the manual were never obtained after 8-10 attempts with approx. 70% of the settings well above acceptable tensions which would result in a very high wear rate of the belt and related components. As all the 12 cylinder cars share the same cam belt components from the 456 to the 575 I think the results we found can be applied to all of the 12 cylinder models.

Food for thought.......

Dave

 

On this Sheehan quotes GATES the maker of these belts in SC this month, it made an impression on me.

 

Gates is actually the biggest maker of belts in the world. Everything from Ferrari to Harley Davidson.


Darrell.

 

Precisely why their views as to a replacement interval are relevant and ought not to be disgarded lightly, M

 

The expense would just not be worth it. Besides there are some advantages to belts.

 

No one disregards them lightly. The most important factor in setting a life span is the 30 or so years of experience with them on Ferrari motors though.

Belt manufacturers suggestions played a big part in belt replacement intervals in the early days. As a data base was developed through experience Ferrari has changed the service interval. It is naturally a little conservative as it needs to be to cover many variables. Oil changes are no different. We try to change that before the motor suffers serious damage too.

A couple of other things to consider in the topic, the auto industry as a whole are running the other way from belts and they are not doing it because chain drive systems are so cheap. They are doing it because of the service costs and far shorter RELIABLE life span of the belts. Also as far as Gates goes, they are a good company and make a good product but how many companies are not guilty of embellishing the durability of their product especially when their market is shrinking due to an entire industry running the other way due to durability issues.

American cars used to as a standard have a 5 year warranty. Long warranties went away. Belts came in. Long warranties came back. Belts went away. I am not saying belts became popular because warranties got short but it became clear that as longer warranties came back belts could no longer be counted on.

 

Were the tensioners the weak point in the timing chain design used in the vintage cars?
If so, have there been advances in timing chain tensioners?

 

The only Ferrari that I am aware of that had chain tensioner issues were the early GTC4's with the Reynolds tensioners. It was short lived.

Yes and modern motors for the most part have done away with the old style roller chains.

 

Mine has had two belts changes. At 30,000 & 60,000 miles they were replace as part of the major.

 

What are the advantages to belts?