COUNTACH REUNION | Page 34 | FerrariChat
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COUNTACH REUNION

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by joe sackey, Nov 17, 2006.

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  1. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    Joe Sackey
    #826 joe sackey, Jan 30, 2007
    Thats OK. Follow your heart as they say...
     
  2. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    Joe Sackey
    #827 joe sackey, Jan 30, 2007
    Almost 22,000 views and almost 850 posts I noticed....those are some significant numbers.

    What IS it with the Countach as a subject on F-Chat?
    Maybe this thread will have some continued interest?
    Does somebody get a prize for being the 1,000th poster?
    Does anybody know who really shot JR?
    And last, but not least, whos your daddy?

    :)
     
  3. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
    6,854
    Italia
    #828 EMILIO, Jan 30, 2007
    Joe,

    let me put in this way:
    there is always a reason because a peculiar variant is more sought after:

    SV are not in top of the list without a logic: this has a lot to do with the fact it is and was the best in any compartment (rarest, best driving, best look) of the serie

    LP400: the first, the lightest, the rarest and the purest design (let me say there are some other compartment where the LP is not "king" : agrressive look, handling, ecc...)
    of course the image of the car is SOOOO STRONG that easily makes it the collector car, but there is still a logic in this
     
  4. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #829 joe sackey, Jan 30, 2007
    My point is the value attached to the most revered cars in the world is emotionally driven.
    Why isnt the first version of the Miura the most valuable of the model, just as the first (LP400) version of the Countach is? Why is the better handling 250 LM worth less than the 250 GTO?
    Anyway, my point a few posts ago was to explain some of the factors of the LP400's extreme reverance, and point out that it stands head-and-shoulders value wise above all other Countach variants.

    Joe
     
  5. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
    6,854
    Italia
    #830 EMILIO, Jan 30, 2007

    the first P400 has a lot of youth faults, the LP400 was a great machine since the very beginning (the fact to be the first is not that important for the P400, since in every other aspects it is in the SV's shadow)
    more the SV looks a lot like the P400, even better to most, while the image of the LP400 is very different from all other countach (a lot better to most)

    the decision to buy the car is emotionally driven, the value don't know, it has more to do with logic imo

    in this point i agree with you at 110%, Joe

    and please don't ask me about GTO or LM, i know so little about those that my opinion is even more worthless on those ;)
     
  6. superX

    superX Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Cary, NC
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    Dennis Briddell
    #831 superX, Jan 30, 2007
    Are you sure? I swear I've seen larger sized flare extention on other early cars. The flare size is boarder line nit-picky though. The S1 is bad-ass any way you slice it, and the early cars have the best interior. Problem: it doesn't have the QV motor, so I still give the nod to the pre-88.5 QV in euro trim.

    As for the lowering, my eye isn't that good and I can't tell the difference.
     
  7. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
    6,854
    Italia
    #832 EMILIO, Jan 30, 2007
    you're right
    i choose the wrong 80's one LOL
     
  8. Tony Ierardi

    Tony Ierardi Formula Junior

    May 30, 2004
    886
    Naples, FL
    #833 Tony Ierardi, Jan 30, 2007
    I am 100% sure.

    But you did see more than one... there were a few different ones made for the US that looked like that, but how they left the Factory was all the same from 78-88. In 89 the 25th Anniv car was different all together.

    The QV motor with FI 425HP or with Carbs 455HP is more than the 375HP the LP400 put out, but the seat of the pants feel and the sound of a 400 motor @ 8,000 RPM is a beautiful thing.
     
  9. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

    Jul 30, 2004
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    Roy L. Cats
    #834 roytoy2003, Jan 30, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well the last time I had it was in the "players run" when we had a little shall we say BUMP and GO....

    All done and pretty now..

    I added the factory correct rear fender side pods and rear CF bumper, BOY where they hard to get, not like a lot of SV-R parts lying around. Added rear view color camera, some other little touch ups...

    Off for a little FAST run down the I-5
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  10. Tony Ierardi

    Tony Ierardi Formula Junior

    May 30, 2004
    886
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    #835 Tony Ierardi, Jan 30, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well lets get into the wing thing a bit deeper.

    I know there were a few different styles and to tell you the truth, the first wing that wolf put on would make me moody too, but only because of the uprights. The uprights are the key here, the first ones that slanted upward from both front and back.....I am not a fan of. The next version of the uprights that were slanted back and had cut outs for the adjustment toward the top of the upright. The third version looks slanted back but has what looks like a black button in a hole a little lower down on the upright. 4th version is a solid upright with no cut outs or black buttons and side plates. Then the wing gets smaller with more vertical uprights on the QV. I am not sure if all wings were aluminum because I have seen a few in fiberglass.

    Note: Factory side plates have been added over the years to all the wings but the big goofy looking side plates that you may have seen before are not factory parts.

    The different factory wings are:

    1. Big wing - no end plates - front & back vertical upright.

    2. Big wing - no end plates - slope back upright with cut out towars top.

    3. Big wing - end plates - slope back upright with black button on upright.

    4. Big wing - end plates - slope back upright that have no cut outs.

    5. Smaller wing with more vertical upright.



    I'll take a # 2 please :)

    There were different manufacturers of the wings I have been told as well.


    .
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  11. alberto

    alberto Formula 3

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    #836 alberto, Jan 30, 2007
    SV-R ------- Introverts and those not seeking attention need not apply.
     
  12. mcg

    mcg Formula Junior

    Jul 26, 2004
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    Andy
    #837 mcg, Jan 30, 2007


    I'll take a # 1 or # 2 and the appropriate car to mount beneath it.
     
  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #838 joe sackey, Jan 30, 2007
    Im just dizzy from all this 'wingmania'....
     
  14. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #839 joe sackey, Jan 30, 2007
    In reality, you could say that of any V12 mid-engined Lamborghini.....
     
  15. 2aftercannonball

    2aftercannonball Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2006
    459
    #840 2aftercannonball, Jan 30, 2007
    Seems to me the clouds are burning off over the LP400S. Defining what a lowbody is as well as when they raised the suspension, changed the body demensions, and all the small changes along the way make for an interesting run of a V12 4 liter engine Countach "S". I'm not saying which Countach is going to be worth more(current selling values say it for me). I am saying that as more 400S owners chime in, it clears up wrong info. from the past. Thats all we can do, get the information from the cars, not from hear say. Its gonna be a bright, bright sunshiny day.

    BTW I'm no collecter, just an enthusiast!

    Greg
     
  16. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

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    #841 joe sackey, Jan 31, 2007
    We love them all on this thread.

    But, whichever way you slice it, the debate of which cars are the Series One cars continues. Ask Wolf & Dallara (the men behind the cars, and they are adamant) and theyll say 78 & 79 cars. Ask the owners of 1978 & 79 cars and theyll say the same. Ask the owners of 1980 and 1981 cars and its something else. Nothing at all has been definitively clarified by the factory and thats the bottom line. The cars can only tell you so much and in fact as time goes on they leave more questions than answers. Unfortunately that era was a dark one for Lamborghini and its record-keeping. You dont have this type of dispute within other model variants such as the LP400, or the Miura SV, or others. Thats is what I mean when I suggest that it hampers values of the LP400S cars. Of that Im sure as I see that some buyers (who have approached me) are a bit confused on what is what, and how much to pay. Thats the way it is unfortunately.

    Joe
     
  17. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    8,987
    #842 wbaeumer, Jan 31, 2007
    Joe,
    I had the privilege to drive both (the cars where part of the Hartmut Ibing-collection and he owns his GTO since 1976 -bought it then for the money of a new Mercedes-S-Class!!).

    After driving the 250LM the GTO feels like a truck! But - the LM is a far more tricky car with a very strange seating position! Like my friend Michael Sheehan once said: "In a GTO even a not so good driver looks good - while even a very good driver has to fight to get the LM on the road!"

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  18. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    8,987
    #843 wbaeumer, Jan 31, 2007
    ...and this reflect the market situation. Collectors who can affort those cars are mostly drivers with a "common skill" behind the wheel. So, the GTO is the more desirable car as it make them look good!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  19. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    8,987
    #844 wbaeumer, Jan 31, 2007
    Yep, the SV is the best of the Miura bunch!
    For the Countach the technically one is the 25th Anniversary - but its the ugliest one ever made! But when I see this rather stupid "additions" made by the US-Gouv. to the earlier Countach, I am not sure if the 25th is now looking "good"!.........!!!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  20. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    8,987
    #845 wbaeumer, Jan 31, 2007
    ....as Joe sayed: "Stallone vs. McQueen!" OK, some rate the boobs of Dolly Parton over the ones of Giselle Buendchen.......but....I took my choice when it comes to testosterone!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  21. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    #846 joe sackey, Jan 31, 2007
    Today I had a telephone conversation with Hubert Hahne (thanks Walter) the ex-BMW racing driver and famous German factory Lamborghini concessionaire/dealer from 1970 to 1982. The conversation centered on some facts I needed clearing up for my Miura book, but at the end we touched on the Countach S subject.

    Hahne was very hands-on with the cars spending more time at the factory than anybody outside factory personell.

    Hahne recalls selling Fred Johl his Countach LP400S new (maybe because Fred threatened that if he did not see the car which he had fully paid for in the time promised, he would have Hahne dumped in the middle of Lake Como with concrete boots on - true story).

    I asked Hahne who is still involved in the automotive world as an auto analyst, "What is a Countach S Series One?"
    He answered without hesitation: "The 1978 and 1979 cars with the Bravo wheels".
    In effect, his assertion, is exactly the same as that told to me personally by Gian Paolo Dallara AND Walter Wolf, the two men directly responsible for the cars themselves.
    I have now been told this by three seperate individuals on three seperate occasions all of whom one could be forgiven for considering authorities on the subect! For my money, its starting to get a little hard to argue the point made by the very people who know.
    But, what do I know? Im just the messenger, and as they say: "Dont shoot the messenger!"

    Still yet theres NOTHING by way of documentation from the factory.
    Additionally, owner input in the here-and-now by itself only establishes opinions, but doesnt clarify anything definitively.

    One thing thats worth considering is, I bet that the owners of ALL the 1978 and 1979 cars will agree with assertions of messrs Wolf, Dallara & Hahne. Id put money on that.

    A light at the end of the tunnel is that Hahne thinks he can find the official 1979 production log that will help clarify the last 1979 car if thats any help...

    Maybe its not really important which is what Series. Some have even suggested to me that there are three seperate series. Which leads to even more questions.

    Its all interesting stuff.

    Joe
     
  22. 2aftercannonball

    2aftercannonball Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2006
    459
    #847 2aftercannonball, Jan 31, 2007
    If the confusion is all about what a S1 is, just drop the term, call them what they are, a LP400S, after all that is how they are badged. I see no S1 badge anywhere on any. If its an early lowbody, early interior style, bravo wheeled,and 45 DCOE carbed car, than its a early LP400S. If its a lowbody, later interior, smooth Campagnolo wheeled, and 45 DCOE car, than its a mid LP400S, If its suspension is raised, roof line changed, smooth Route OZ wheeled, and 40 DCOE(????) car its a later LP400S. All are LP400S Countachs. The changes may not be so cut and dry between the three but its very close. So, a buyer/collector can choose the LP400S as he or she perfers them. Its as simple as choosing a color. Problem is finding it.
    If I was selling my LP400S, I would list it as a LP400S, Lowbody, smooth Camognolo wheels, 375 HP, 45 DCOE Webbers, Silver ext, Black int, and Moody wing. It is what it is, a mid run LP400S. I don't see the confusion. if the the buyer and seller come to an agreement on price thats what its worth. If collectors are confused by this, than yes, the values suffer. Too bad, because they are great Countachs! I would not trade mine for another.


    Greg
     
  23. Tony Ierardi

    Tony Ierardi Formula Junior

    May 30, 2004
    886
    Naples, FL
    #848 Tony Ierardi, Jan 31, 2007
    Ah Greg... but would you trade it for these magic beans? :)

    I do agree with what you just posted though, there are 3 types of LP400S.

    Tony
     
  24. 2aftercannonball

    2aftercannonball Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2006
    459
    #849 2aftercannonball, Jan 31, 2007
    Do they make a person smarter, richer, and better looking?
     
  25. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    #850 joe sackey, Jan 31, 2007
    I agree with three distinct variants - I have always thought that there were three pretty distinct variants, which is saying something because with Lamborghini there often wasnt an obvious transition.
    Remember the owners of the 78 and 79 cars are also starting to say, "Our cars are the original S1 cars".
    By the way, you cant simply "drop" the Series One moniker any more than you can with Espadas various series etc. The old timers were the ones who brought it to light that the Series One LP400S cars were a distinct variant they referred to as "Uno Serie" or Series One. The lowbody thing is something that owners came up with in deference to the car's actual physical disposition.

    Joe
     
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