Are Dino prices dropping?

If doesn't make much sense, then the Ferrari market in general must not make much sense to you. The 355s and 360s are EXTREMELY high production cars in Ferrari terms that have even more to depreciate before they hit bottom. Yes, obviously they have superior performance, comfort, etc to something like a Dino, but anyone even remotely familiar with the Ferrari market knows that these things often have little impact on value.

It is unfortunate that you were so horribly misinformed all those years ago by your "experts".

 

Gentlemen,

I enjoy reading much of what is posted on F-Chat because it reminds me of my youth. I chuckle each time I read a well-intentioned contributor (perhaps expert) admonishing a novice to "...absolutely, positively, without a doubt demand a PPI and walk if it is not perfect..." or "...check the compression carefully. If it is not perfect...walk."

If you follow these rules, I can guarantee 1) you will never purchase the car you want and 2) sometime in the future you will be kicking yourself for not buying that car.

These are 35-year old cars! They are not going to be perfect. Most of the fun in owning them is trying to bring them close to perfection. Ask Jon (omgjon).

If you decide to walk from a purchase because of "X" reason, it is because you did not want the car at that price. The "X" reason is merely the excuse. If you walk from a car using "X" reason and it is $5,000 above what you want to spend today, ask yourself what you will have to spend in 1 year or 5 years to purchase the car. Go ahead. Drive a hard bargain. See who wins.

What I have learned while my hair has been graying is that if I want something of value, I will not allow a small percentage in purchase price to deter me. I will not make excuses (e.g., "...the spare wheel was dinged..."). If I find myself doing so, then I must not really want the car, and I have wasted the owner's time.

Perhaps the analogy, "...if you think that the cost of education is expensive, consider the alternative..." could be tweaked to apply to vintage cars.

Jim S.

 

I totally agree. I bought my last car sight unseen only with a description from somebody that looked at it. I knew if I waited at all it would be gone, and I really really wanted it. Did I pay too much? Who knows. All i know is I have a beautiful original flares and chairs coupe that still has lots of little projects for me to do. If I had waited for a ppi or reviewing all it's records it would now be enjoyed by someone other than myself. Way too much emphasis is put on monetary value. If you want something that's no fun, you can't look at and there's no thrill in owning but will go up in value you will just have to a buy a CD and quit looking for the perfect car at the perfect price, it doesn't exist. Just take the plunge and enjoy the journey!

 

and if need be, taking it racing!
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This post should be a sticky. Very well said.

 

Just curious, do you own a chairs and flairs? If so, is this your car? Regardless, it's a nice one and would probably be valued at the high end of the Dino market.

-F
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The car pictured in post 34 is in Denver, Colorado. Same ownership for at least 25 years.
Ron Hetherington

 

No, it isn't.

 

The car in post #32 has American side markers but Euro front indicators and bumpers. I suppose there is a chance that it could have come that way but the Euro front indicator on the passenger side looks like it is crooked.... It has Euro bumpers so it may have come from one of those wierd markets like Switzerland that has different requirements than other places in Europe etc. or the side indicators could have been a DOT required addition......maybe it is the angle but it seems like there is some funny business going on......maybe from a wreck... I am not sure this car would be priced at the high end..... I'll still take it though ...but that would bug me and would have to be fixed....

 

I'm pretty sure that the big side marker lights were US only.

 

This is a U.S. car that an owner converted to front Euro directionals (during other paint or body work). The side markers are U.S., and nobody in their right mind would add them to a Euro...and this was not required during importation of the Dino. In the early days the car did not have sufficient value for someone to purchase overseas and convert (that is, add the rectangular side lights/reflectors).

The front directionals are well done. Having just completed this task, I can tell you that it is quite difficult to qet them lined up correctly. The original Euro front directions are not horizontal, but slighted "cocked" to run parallel to the edge of the front clip. If one draws a line from the side of the front deck lid and continues it down, it will be a tangent to the medial aspect of the directional, as this example illustrates. The other index is that the lower edge of the directional should run parallel to the break in the front clip ("edge"). If one really studies this example carefully, there might be a slight...and I emphasize slight...tilt of the passenger side directional, with the outboard end slightly raised. As a consequence, the lower edge of this passenger directional is not quite parallel to the edge of the front clip.

Hope this makes sense. I do believe it is a conversion from U.S. to Euro front directional, and a rather nice job.

edit: Looking again, I believe that both directionals are slight raised on the outboard side and not parallel to the front clip break.

Jim S.

 

I saw/sat in this one at Symbolic, although I just happened to be there for other reasons - so I didn't dissect the car. It does have quite a bit of patina, including a bit of chipped paint/oxidation on the rear end of the doortops near the windows. That said, it's still a very sharp car, and one that can be driven.

It does not compare to the black/tan 246 that Omgjon had on our drive last year in Rancho Santa Fe.

I can't see older Ferraris moving down much at all, unless the economy tanks, whereas I think the 355 and 360 have a long, long way to fall (below 308/328 levels eventually) as the status-conscious money chases the newest Ferrari and the collectors shun digital dashes, airbags and all the electronics in these mass-produced, machine-made cars.

I've got the 328 now, which I love, but I think if my financial circumstances improved enough I would go older long before I'd go newer in the Ferrari market. I think the performance wars long ago brought cars that are basically unusable on public roads, and I'd rather ante up for craftsmanship and distinctive design than fork over several $100K to cut my 0-60 from 4.0 to 3.6 sec.

 

I bought my "very nice driver, 23,000 mile, with recent professional engine rebuild (dropped a valve) and general restoration" 246GT in 1987 from a dealer for $30K, which was the going rate then. They got up to about $90-100K before the crash in the early 90's. So I think your $250K memory is mistaken.

 

My late 1971 production 246GT is absolutely, positively an Italian Euro car and absolutely, positively had larger sidemarkers added when it was imported about 1976. If larger side markers were not required for importation, why would Ferrari have made the cars that way?

 

The directional on the passenger side is well done? Sure? I know a little about metal work and it is not difficult to get them lined up correctly - the other steps really are the hard part.... As a matter of fact, after going through all the trouble to do the work that we see here, the only excuse for the visibly crooked indicator is carelessness. A car of this magnitude deserves better.... I wish we knew where this metal work was done so we would know where not to take our cars.... The indicators are indeed slightly cocked on Dinos but the one on the passenger side on this car is clearly not right and would certainly deduct from its value......

 

from FML 1990 vol 1
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PantDino - I am not sure why someone felt compelled to add the side markers to your 1971 Dino. Do you know the date of manufacture of your 1971? Early 1971 did not witness U.S. production cars. Late 1971 began the modification to meet DOT and EPA requirements. If your car was manufactured in early 1971, then it predated the DOT side marker requirements and they could have brought it in without modification. Late 1971 would have required smog equipment, and adding this equipment (along with the side markers) would have been costly. My 1972 Euro (manufactured mid 1971) was imported through Chenetti as is (without U.S. equipment). My two other 1972s (late 1971 production) were U.S. models.

Parker839 - Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. While I can maybe, perhaps, sometimes look at these same pictures for the 4th or 5th time and convince myself that they are angled too much, a not-so-critical eye would unlikely notice it. Furthermore, unless it is parked next to a true Euro, it would be difficult to distinguish. You and I, and perhaps a handful of others, have spent several days lining up the cut-outs for Euro directional lamp modification, but most of the world's population has not and would not readily notice this.

We can agree to disagree.

Jim S.

 

funny how they are red/balck/ or yellow, isn't it. these prices were very real - although maybe not real in value since the market was soon collapsed there after

 

Jselevan-- My Heritage Certificate says it was made Oct 27, 1971. Another letter I have from Ferrari says it was sold in Italy in 1971.
It had enough smog stuff installed to pass a visual inspection from the top of the engine, so it falls into your "late 1971" category.

In case anyone wants to throw in their 2cents, I'm defending our cars' honor on the Vintage board, also.

Regarding the ASKING prices in FML: this was the height of the hysteria market. Did any of those cars actually SELL for those prices? I note in those ads you can get a car with 50-50 paint for 200K or one with a trophy and 60K in new receipts for 185K.
Does that give you much confidence that those numbers mean anything?

Jim O

 

Our Dino was brought into the US (Charleston, SC) with my parents' furniture and personal effects in 1978. It sailed through customs (my dad's recollection is that the customs officer told him to hurry up and get it out of the impound before he had to deal with it) and the South Carolina registration process with nary a ripple.

Not one piece of US required equipment was added.

 

DinoDan - Your experience parallels mine. Dinos produced in mid-1971 or earlier did not require U.S. DOT or EPA modification.

Looking at the Chairs and Flares Coupe pictured in this thread (the one that I posted comments regarding the front directionals), I note that the windshield wipers are later than the "clapping hands" type. This would suggest that the car is newer than late 1971. I believe the shift in production from old to new windshield wipers occurred in 1972. Hence, this car would have required rectangular side markers and DOT-EPA modificiations to enter the U.S. Therefore, the Euro directionals are likely a owner-precipitated modification, further supported by the presence of headlamp plexiglass covers.

Post Super Bowl glance at the directionals does support Parker839's comment. The passenger side is noticeably askew. This lends additional support that the rectangular side markers are the real deal. It is the front directionals that have been modified.

Jim S.

 

My car, as advertised at the peak in 1989, it did'nt sell!
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Ours is a '73. I think we got lucky.