Can't help it..saw one today on the floor of the Chicago auto show and it had the new staggered 18in. front 19in. rear wheels that didn't have that tucked in look the older ones did. It's brand spankin' new and clean and no sorting out about it. With Warranty Every 308 i see looks old up close and has had ten thousand or so of repair reciepts in the last decade and prolly needs more as soon as you get it despite a ppi. Only have one Ferrari shop in my area with a good but very expensive reputation..no shopping service around.
Go for it. Like I said, the 350 is a great machine, and may be your next car. Just don't let horror stories keep you away from F-cars forever. Like you, I wanted one since I was a small boy, and it took me a while to get to the point where I was ready to jump in. I jumped knowing what I was getting into, admission price + maintenence. So long as you go in with eyes open...
This is interesting. When I had mine PPI'd by the local Ferrari dealer (who shall remain nameless) they told me that overall mechanically it was in good shape but it was leaking oil out the cam drive pulley bearing and they advised changing the tbelts/tensioners and then while they're at it do a full service. I was told, no kidding, this was going to require the engine out and was going to cost in the range of $10 - 12K. Fortunately I did some further research because that didn't sound right to me. I ended up doing a major myself when I got it home and I realize how rediculous thier proposal was. This is just like anything else...caveat emptor... do your shopping and your homework and like Rifledriver says find someone who understands the value of a long term business relationship.
Oh I forgot to mention...it was leaking oil but not out the drive bearing seals. I replaced them anyway. The misdiagnosis doesn't bother me so much but the other stuff is just bizarre. Now perhaps there is premium these dealers charge just so you can say it was serviced at "the dealer". I was not impressed however that they advised the engine had to come out, when even assuming they were correct, that is not the case. Either they don't know the car or..........either would be a serious disincentive for me to do business with them.
Ok Mr Z man... I started writing this earlier and erased it all, figured I didnt need to bear my soul. Well, ya'll called me out. I currently own two 1977 308 GTB's. I bought the first one at a place not far from me here in Minnesota, where it had been sitting outside for a year through summer sun and winter. It wouldnt start, and I bought it that way. Probably everyone here would have said RUN. There are no cheap Ferrari's. Thats a true statement. The second one came along last April of '06. I drove to NJ to haul it back home. It was listed as, and I bought it as a parts car. Ya'll woulda said RUN on that one too. Luckily underneath all the BS it was a driver in disguise, and I finally, after a year and a half of screwing around, had a Ferrari to drive. The first car had a bad starter, thats why it didnt run. But it turned out to have a burned piston, so I have a motor in peices. The gearbox needs a fifth gear syncro, so now I have a gearbox in peices. But before I found all that, I did a service on the motor, belts, valve adjust, distributors, pulled all the wheels, gave it a good going over. It sat in the garage on jackstands a few weeks while I figured it all out. And while I figured it out I got to crawl all over a Ferrari 308 of my own, dog that she is. I drove it all of 11 miles, smoking like a sonnabeach. Blew 3 quarts of oil into the aircleaner, went through the carbs and loaded up the muffler, oiled everything all up really nice. You could smell the Marvel Mystery Oil from 30 feet away. Now the hard part. With all the parts I have bought off eBay, and from parts houses and a few guys of Fchat, I have less than $30K invested. I have a car that runs, and almost enough parts to fix the first car. I have to be nuts. I could hardly justify the first car. My darling wife actually talked me into driving to NJ or I was gonna forget it. In the end I have hours and hours of labor into this. Weeks man, forget this 40 hour BS., 400 plus maybe. And for all my time and money I have is a nice driver and a parts car. I know the belts aint going to strip because I did them. Because as much as I couldnt really afford the cars, I really cant afford to wreck a motor. And thats the whole point of this belt BS. Its an insurance policy, Italian style. Maybe the winds will change, the market will shift, and I will come out way ahead some day. But I really didnt buy them for that. I did it because I wanted that dream. And I wanted it so fricken bad I just about would have crawled through broken glass, or cut off a nut to do it. My sons friend has a 350 Z his daddy bought him. Cute car. So why is he over here drooling at my pos Ferrari? 30 years from now where will your 350 Z be? 30 years from now, if I'm nice, and if I still have the car, the kid might get my Ferrari. And it will still be turning heads and raising the hair on some guys neck. Thats what Ferrari's do, dont they?
Art...nice and touching story. But I'm no mechanic so I must rely on others to fix my car. Tex/Rifle: I was mistaken...I thought a belt change was a major...that's how confusing this subject can get for neophites. So this is what I need to know... 1: What is included in a Major? 2: How often should it be done? 3: How many hours should it take and do you pull the engine on a Mondial 3.2 (coupe) to do it right? 4: How often should the belt be changed? 5: How many hours should it take and do you pull the engine on a Mondial 3.2 (coupe) to do it right? (I know, this question has already been answered). And thank you to all for taking the time to address this very confusing issue without all the usual abuse. It really is a very important issue and desearves to be taken seriously. Purhaps, if the majority can agree on the answers, a sticky should be posted...so you don't have to repeat this every 6 months... Thank you.
*Golf clap for Paul (Artvonne).......* luigi all I know is from reading my Owner's Manual late into the night....LOL! And learning from the Wise Ones..... Look in the Service coupon book for the Warranty...even long after the Factory cares, WE care! So use that..it basically shows you under the hood every 3K miles checking things. It doesn't cost much the CHECK things.. Now we have a Tech Bulletin on timing belts for 3 year intervals, to my info this is the ONLY item not directly related to usage/mileage... So you drive happy, listening for wierd noises and every 15K and 30K do some heavy lifting. That's all there is to riding on the Ferrari V8 bus. As to the fine Japanese car question, the depreciation curve looks like jmping off a cliff....LOL!
Quick summary: A major includes changing the belts, and a much longer list, including checking valve timing. You do NOT have to pull a 308 or Mondial engine for a Major, or the lesser belt change at half the major interval. This site has a several manuals: http://ferrari.jenkins.org/books/ The QV owner's manual in the site has the service schedule table (it's essentially the same for ALL 3x8/Mondials.) The schedule shows what should be checked or replaced at what intervals. Search is your friend, there are several posts that list what's in a 'major' in detail, going back to the old fchat.
My hat off to ya Artvonne. I spent the last decade in quiet desperation trying to fiqure a way out of a marriage i didn't want to be in in a city i didn't want to live in. Finally got out of the marriage and moved where i wanna be. Spent the last two years re-doing a house i bought only for location. Always sawdust and workers all over the place. The math that says it's gonna cost you three times the amount and take twice as long as you expect is a good rule of thumb. The Z i have now i put a 5speed in and a turbo and on and on to get it the way i want it. Wouldn't wanna do all that work or put all that time in again. This 308 search is giving me that "here we go again" feeling. I'm sick of things i gotta work on and always search for parts for or pay someone else handsome amounts of money to do it for me. Been to alot of car shows for work. I'm used to walking up to a 35+ year old Mustang or Camaro that despite being a red blooded all American i have no want for whatsoever. Thing is though many of these cars are in over restored or near perfect shape inside and out, underneath and above. Lots of vendors with brand new crate engines and re-pro parts everywhere. The 308's i see all seem in a word "old" to me. Not classic but old. I want 'em to be clean and new like the Camaros and Mustangs are but it's not gonna happen. I imagine the Z will be in a junkyard or recycled in thirty years. But for the next 5 years it will allow me to just jump in and go wherever i want with no worries. I'd rather have a perfect 308 than a Z anyday but sometimes you just gotta settle for a distant second i guess.
You see, what works for some, may not work for everyone. To each his own. Climb, glad to see you finally found some piece of mind and hope your ship comes in one day soon. Tex and others, thanks again. There's no evidence of a major or timing belt being done since 98 so I guess I'll just pay someone to do it right. and if they want to pull the motor out I'll just pay more...Not happy about it, but don't really see any options as I can't do it myself and everyone around me wants to charge 40 hours...But at least I'll have a good working car in the end.
Hey, this is my first post! I have owned a 350Z for about 2.5 years now. I love everything about it. But I've lusted after a 3x8 for as long as I can remember, and will undoubtedly still be lusting after one long after my Z has been retired.
I will say something else. I heard for years how crappy of quality and misfit of parts a 308 was. How unreliable and expensive it was. But like everything else, I took it with a grain of salt. In one way or the other, either through owning, or working at various shops or on my own, I have had my hand on just about everything except RR, Lambo, Masers, I even played around racing on ice for a while. I felt I had to see for myself. Of the two 308's I own, the countless ones I looked at, and the handful of others ive ridden in and drove, I rate them of very high quality. But, because they are virtually a hand built racing car, (stamped panels but all hand fit and assembled) they are not finished in the ways you see other cars. Lots of rivets, welded seams, its definetly built far different. But quality wise I see nothing "wrong" anywhere. The engine and gearbox are of the highest quality, very good manufacturing and engineering. But, its base is that of a race car, and it shines through everywhere. Its ridgid, taut, agressive. The biggest problem I have seen, read and heard about, is the idiots who worked on them before, and the prior owners who neglected them. I fully believe the engines and drivelines are as good or better than anything as far as durability. To the point that most of these cars could have 5 times the mileage they read, if not a lot more. If this car I have runs really good next summer, it would be a peice of cake to roll 20K miles onto it. Yet nine times out of ten, the first clown that gets it will roll it back. I honestly believe that. There is just to damned much money involved in high end cars. If these cars hit 60K miles, they just about wont sell. Roll it back to 28K miles, polish her up, dont say nothin, and bang, we have a buyer. And all that does is give the cars a bad name, because with God only knows how many miles on the old girls, they need more work than many can afford to pay for. I fully agree with rifledriver, they are really good cars. But they need maintenence to give you good service. And the belt thing, well, do whatever YOU want. But if your going to offer advice to people, stick to the factory schedule, but no more than that. People are just going to have trouble and its going to hurt them bad. Even one a year is bad. I would like to think that everyone here who owns one of these cars, or wants one of these cars, is a fun enthusiast of Ferrari. I wouldnt wish any of you here to have a belt strip on your car, no matter if you can afford it or not. Why would any one of us recommend anyone else risk that? Its not that the belts cant go 100K miles, probably many have. Its that after 3 years or so, nobody knows what life is left. Its a rubber fricken belt for gods sakes, no one can see inside the damned thing at the molecular level. Fabric skin on aircraft are punched with holes after a few years to test thier airworthiness. Thats probably the only true test you give these belts. Punch a hole through and mesure its shear strength, or analyse the fabrics internal structure. Well, you cant run it after its punched, so ya might as well bite the bullet. You guys change tires as often and they arent nearly as likely to do the damage one of these dumb $30 belts is gonna do. And do you realise that many of these old 308's have never had the motor out? How many 70's Hondas can you say that about?
Man, buddy that's a beautiful read.....LOL! We do the best we can, drive, and hope............ Note the O.P. hasn't been back.......
Jumping back in, just cuz Ferrari says change the belts every 3 years or every five years or at 30k doesn't answer the question. If they told owners to jump off bridges would we do that? I'm seeking a real answer. Turns out lots of other cars with similar timing belts go ALOT longer. As stated, I've come across two 3x8 cars, each over 20 years old, each with their original belts. Now, I'm not advocating going twenty years, but I think three years is BS! E.g., Subaru recommends changing belts every 105k miles! Mitsubishi every 60k miles. READ ON. I THINK FNA IS RIPPING US OFF! "On vehicles built before the mid-1990s, 60,000 miles was a common replacement interval. Thanks to improved rubber formulation, the replacement interval of more recent vehicles has increased to about 100,000 miles. Timing belts deteriorate due to heat, stress and, to a lesser degree, chemical attack from air pollution. Unfortunately, it is difficult to access the belt for a thorough inspection, and potential problems might not be visually apparent.Common trouble signs include glazing or hardness (a firmly pressed fingernail should leave an imprint), cracking between cogs (difficult to see when installed) and puffy-softness due to oil impregnation." Written by Brad Bergholdt, who teaches automotive technology in San Jose, Calif. E-mail him at [email protected] or write to him in c/o The Seattle Times, P.O. Box 70, Seattle, WA 98111.
AND: "Most newer cars after 1999 have timing belts which are supposed to last until 105k miles. Don't always trust this interval. It's prudent to check with the manufacturer's technical service bulletins for the latest updates. Premature timing belt tensioner failures and water pump bearing failures are two common reasons these belts don't always make it to 105k. Sometimes, it is better to just replace it by 80-90k and play it safe." I'm thinking 7 years or 60k, whichever comes first. Surely there are guys out there who've let it go this long. If you're out there, chime in any time please!
Acura NSX: 7 YEARS OR 90K MILES! (A car whose motor revs comparably to the Ferrari V8) One of the top NSX technicians in the country: "Acura says 7 years or 90 k miles. Period. I have seen Integra belts break at lower miles and years, but NEVER a Legend or NSX. I have seen Legend owners go as high as 110k miles, but rarely, if ever over 8 years. Years ago I developed the quirky habit of taking every belt I remove, and twist it like wringing out a wash cloth. I listen to the number of fiberglass strands that snap and break, and predict how close to breakdown the car may have been. This sound of glass breaking is very distinctive. I have done NSX T-belts that were 7 or 8 years old with only 30 or 40 k miles, and when I twist the belt, all I get is red hands. The moral of the story is that while other cars may be in the danger zone at your cars age and miles, I would plan to do yours no later than, say, 8-9 years, or at about 50k. If this sounds arbitrary, it is based on the experience of others. If nervous, disregard [everything above] and get it replaced"
I think you are not getting it. Feel free to pick any service interval you desire (my minivan went 168K before the timing belt broke). Chances are the belt and idler and water pump will last a long time. What are the odds? Sure Ferrari wants to sell service, it's how they make money (in big boxes). Their recommendations are "safe" and clearly serve the anal retentive needs of their customer base. I have never seen more rumination about something simple and second guessing the advice given by those who really do know what they're talking about.
for us guys over here in oz!! 308 parts are as rare as rockin horse s##t, i do maybe 2000-3000 khs a year my belts get replaced every 2 years regardless of khs ..... good luck to you guys that play Russian roulette with your engines cheers rizzo
