Desparate Times for Ferrari ???

I don't see this as a service that the manufacturer is asked to do for free, but rather a service that was paid for with the original purchase price of the car - just like the costs incurred training the service personnel on a new model.

 

I think for the most part Ferrari Spa. has little interest in customer service, and that goes for FNA as well.

 

hi i know how you feel the classiche program. it is really designed of the wealthy vintage ferrari collector. that just is a fact of life. i didn't read all the posts here but incase noone has suggested it try posting your questions in the 308/328./Mondial section. i am sure there are experts there who can answer you questions. good luck tongascrew george

 

I don't know that to be the case. Most businesses treat customers and non-customers differently. Ferrari Spa may very well be treating its paying customers quite well...certainly better than I treat squatters (i.e. non-paying customers).

Keep in mind that Ferrari Spa is not in the used car business. Buying a used Ferrari doesn't necessarily make you a Ferrari Spa customer. Just a fact of life.

You could probably have an entire debate over where to draw to line...and when/where it makes sense to treat non-customers as kings (e.g. to entice them to be future customers), but that gets away from the questionable claim above that Ferrari Spa is treating its current customers poorly.

 

In the current digital information environment we all live in it is highly probable that the info you seek is a google search away or an informed question on Fchat.
I understand that Ferrari is a going concern doing business in the present day. There is a sub market that has emerged in old Ferraris but that is lucrative only within certain cars. 3x8 series cars are simply mass produced old cars and really don't fall into the idea of what the Classiche program was designed to do. I am not at all suprised by the cost of the info. If you had a 275GTB/4 and needed that same info 100 euros would be a pittance compared to the value of the car and you wouldn't think twice about paying it.

As to brand loyalty within Ferrari I think it is a stretch to imagine that Ferrari would be concerned about a used car customer buying a 30 year old car valued somewhere between $30K and $50k when their current offerings are all north of $200K. The $30K customer is unlikely to be a $200k customer. That is just the reality of the situation.

 

Hi,

I agree as well, as long as the fee is reasonable. I was not charged and the information I requested had to have taken someone a while to research - I was very thankful I was provided with an informative response.

To charge 100e ($131.26) for information on an older vehicle is not too unreasonable considering the research involved - remember, info on many older cars probably did not make its way into an electronic database, so searching paper archives may be involved.

Thanks,

Anthony

 

Bingo.

I know a number of people that are treated like Kings. They spend a considerable amount of money there and it is expected they will continue to do so. They are treated in the same way any business treats a good or a potentially good client.

 

It is sad that Ferrari does not encourage their "fan base". That is what sells cars, new and old. It is the whole "Cult of Ferrari" that made them what they are.

They should support that part of their business in a big way. They could have easily put all this data into electronic format and allowed web access. People could pay an annual fee to get access to the database to make it break-even if they have to.

However it is a marketing expense. They should do all this for free to keep their cars as #1 in exotic.

I have always been a Ferrari nut since age 12. I finally got to buy one only to find out that the rest of the world is starting to move away from Ferrari. It is very sad.

They have not had any high-profile appearances of their cars in anything (like movies or shows etc...)

Lambos have gained huge ground on this apect. So much in fact that when I drive my 360 around I get people asking me why I didn't buy a Lambo instead!!

My uncle has been buying new Ferrari's for around 30 years (he is on the top of the lists). He stopped last year and bought an Aston Martin Vanquish instead. He said Ferrari has lost it's way and it didn't have the appeal anymore.

Sad, very sad indeed.

All I can hope is that Ferrari reads this forum and sees this post or that someone will mail it to them.

 

I had dinner recently with someone who started 7 or 8 years ago with a Mondial - has an Enzo and Murcielago in garage now...I think prospering manufacturers like Ferrari and Bentley are taking their product popularity for granted - forgetting that before the 90's, many new cars grew cobwebs in showrooms. It would be a wise investment to cultivate the brand equity - a la Harley Davidson - which many thought would be fading by now. But they didn't ask me

 

I suspect you're right.

The British car industry might have spent too much time on keeping all this information and not enough figuring out how to make cars that would run.

No offense, but buying a 308GT4 (or any old used Ferrari) doesn't get you invited to the prom. And how many of those GT4 techs are still hanging out in Maranello (outside the rest home, that is)?

Again, why should they do this for free? I'm all in favor of hospitals treating stabbing victims first and worrying about payment later. When it comes to researching the back-seat delete option on a GT4, however, I think "free" is unreasonable. They will be deluged from questions from a lot of us who own what honestly aren't "1 of 4 known" kinds of cars.

Lamborghini doesn't have anything close to the historic lineage Ferrari does, and nowhere near the number of old cars on the road. How many people care about the Espada? How many Jalpas are out there? Compare that to 12,000+ 308s, 7000 Testarossas, 7000 328s... all cars that you can still actually buy and drive. The Boxers and Dinos are also popular, very concours-worthy cars. And then think about all the classic 1950s and 1960s Ferraris that are undergoing full museum-quality restorations - nearly all of them are worth restoring, and restorers want factory data on them.

Most Lambos are Gallardos or Murcielagos, and no one's restoring them. Even with the Diablo, I doubt people are calling the factory and asking whether it "was originally metallic purple with the quilted komodo dragonskin seats or was it actually translucent pink with the verde hydra croc-embossed leather"?

I like Lamborghinis, especially the current Audi-built generation, but you can't begin to compare Ferrari's historic car data demand to Lambo's.

 

No worries as you are new to this. It'll only get worse the more you know

 

Agreed, though $2,500? Perhaps $50USD, maybe $100...

 

Ferrari is not alone. I called Porsche Cars North America yesterday for some production information. I was told they no longer give out production figures. This policy apparently came into effect in late 2006.

 

+1

What's mine is mine,
What's yours is negotiable.

Unless it's written in the contract it's just a PR expense.

to my knowledge, Ferrari does very little advertising per se.

A Ferrari Story.

We went on the Ferrari Challenge Rally from Tahoe to Monterrey/ Pebble Beach a few years ago. took the 1998 355 F1 GTS.

Before we left we had to give them our VIN/SN and our tire size. I asked why. They told me that they were going to carry spare parts and tires in the transport in case someone ruined a tire. This sounded great.

Just before the rally started, I found that the plate behind the passenger seat had come loose. The scews had come out. So I went to the transport to get some screws. The Italian who greeted me said it would be no problem. Come back in 30 minutes. Very, very friendly. After doing this routine three times I finally went into the hallowed huge red Ferrari Transport to look for myself.

There was nothing in there except tools. No tires, no screws, no nothing. so I used my own duct tape to fasten the plate back on until I went to a hardware store. The screws cost 2 cents each.

It cost about $5,000 for two people to go on the rally. this included room and board in first class accomodations for 4 or 5 days. Free wine and beer. Very nice. Great favors...Ferrari coats and duffle bags. Beautiful.

The problem is: don't tell me you are going to have tires and parts and then not deliver. This is poor business practice IMHO.

Lesson learned: Italians are great at telling you what they think you want to hear, but you better have it in writing.

Another story on the same trip. The President of our region's FCA Chapter could not get his convertible top to work. Stuck in half position. There was nothing in the transport to help him. He ended up having a friend drive him to Ferrari of San Francisco to get the part. The people in the transport helped him put it in. He lost a day of the rally to get the part. He was so mad he couldn't talk for a whole day. He thought FNA should have had the part delivered to us.

On the other hand, I needed a part to go on the ralley. when I called FNA to cancel because my car was out of service, they promised me that the car would be able to run in the ralley. The expedited the parts and it was fixed in record time. Never had such good service before or since.

Lesson Learned: Ferrari can work wonders if they WANT to. In this case they were looking at losing my ralley money and they really went to work.

Bottom line: I think it's money. It's a business.

Ciao
Phil Not Hill aka Dr. Phil
Having more fun than any human being should be allowed to have.
Now, go take on the day!

 

Try UNIONS and crappy management. Sound familiar in the US now?

 

Great... Actually, my interest in Ferrari as a car maker stopped after the 360 anyway. (And really took a break between the 355 and the 360) (I know, drum me out now!) But, doesn't really matter. Even if I could manage dropping 200K+ on a new car, I just couldn't justify it. Of course I might be tempted to buy a really pristine 246! So, as long as the service department doesn't try to rape me when I go in for any work I can't (or won't) do, I am fine with it all. And so far, Ferrari Central Florida has given me good quotes on any of the work I don't contact Tim Stanford to do for me.

 

Sad yet true. And yet it has always intrigued me as to how much of Ferrari's profit is built on image and legacy, and not the more common things associated with business, like customer service. In fact, they're still doing it as they've always done it--through motorsport. It's brilliant, really. "Fixate the potential buyer as hard as possible on the image of the brand by winning races, and the rest will fall into place." They don't have to worry about the fact that someone thinks paying said amount of dollars for some info on a rear seat delete on his 308 GT4 is ridiculous. (No offense, as it would peeve me, too.) They've got us all hypnotized. And we know it, and we still love it, and, most important to them, we still buy the product.

 

I think that they put it in as a deterrent. There are a billion people interested in Ferrari, but there are only 100,000 or so owners. For every owner, there are 10,000 Tifosi.

I think that Ferrari might be overwhelmed by the sheer number of questions they get from enthousiasts, that "just want to know what color SN 14717 was, just so they can update their database". By charging money, they are providing a service to people that really want to know.

 

+1

 

And why i know of a few PREVIOUS Fcar owners who sold them for other brands. Seems there is a movement AWAY from the Prancing Horse.

 

Sounds like a fair price to me. FYI, Ferrari, Spa. is a business, not a charity...100 euros to have an employee track down decades old documents and respond to your request is very cheap IMHO...

 

Take a look at warrantee claims for 355 heads and how poorly some felt they were treated... or denied legally justified replacements. How about CF discoloration in current cars.. or decades it took to replace A KEY safety feature in Testarossa called a seat belt, etc.

It is not your fault and understand that FNA/Ferrari Spa might be defended. Sadly, it appears a lack of simple customer care has been discussed here on Fchat, a place where perhaps a large majority of online owners gather and discuss things. Imagine all the guys who are not on Fchat and their lack of knowledge for what appears to be going on.

We need to stick together and regularly post the in warrantee claims, and if they are denied, so others can take note.

 

Again, there is a large difference between a subsequent used car owner wanting something for free...from that of a current Ferrari new car customer.

For instance, the complaints you mention about the 355 exhaust heads seems to come from used car buyers, not from owners who have had the 355 since new.

I'm unaware of the new car buyers being left unhappy by Ferrari Spa. Yes, warrant claims *may* have been denied to some owners who bought their 355's used (and typically many years out of warranty), but I haven't personally seen a single "owned it since new" 355 owner complain of a warranty denial here on-line.

These are two different groups of people...those who buy used Ferraris and those who buy new. It muddles the argument to lump both groups in together.

I'd dare say that Ferrari Spa and FNA are treating their new car buyers quite well. That Ferrari Spa and FNA have a lower level of "customer" service for the other crowd...the used car-buying group, shouldn't be surprising, maddening, or depressing.

...that being said, I suspect that Ferrari Spa and FNA could improve their overall image without spending more money (e.g. putting their existing databases on-line for web access, even if only through the Ferrari Owners' web site).

Another example would be for Ferrari Spa and FNA to release to the public (and release from copyright) the ECU code for Ferrari models as Ferrari ceases active support of said models (typically 10 years after the last car of any model is produced). This would aid the tuners/hot-rodders.

That software code isn't going to be sold by Ferrari ever again, anyway. Keeping it locked in a vault in Modena has no financial benefit to Ferrari...yet releasing it would be cost free and aid tuners in making older models win a few more local/regional races.

Ditto for releasing the 3rd party cross-reference for parts. After 10 years Ferrari isn't selling parts for an older model vehicle...might as well let owners have the data that would allow them to price-shop parts.

So there are cost-free, pain-free ways that Ferrari could improve (not that it's current level of sales would demand it, mind you).

 

Ferrari has a fan base that is so vast that they don't have to do any any advertising at all but their total production is sold for years in advance...

The world is moving away from Ferrari? I'm not sure I understand. See the first comment - sold out years in advance...

High profile. Formula one racing is the most widely followed professional sport on the planet, other than perhaps World Cup Soccer, which happens once every four years. Have you seen any Nic Cage movies. There's always a Ferrari in his movies.

The fact is that Ferrari as a company has never been more profitable or desirable based on the unprecedented demand for their new cars and the crazy way over MSRP values that used cars are fetching. I think Ferrari is far from fading. It is burning really bright in the automotive world sky and only Porsche, as a small volume manufacturer, is more profitable (highly deserved BTW)