I read that today in Ferrari Market Letter : "Monday, 12 February, 2007 Contrary to popular belief, 330 TRI LM S/N 0808 was not made from the remains of S/N 0780 (250 TR). The chassis for the 330 was ordered new." What do you think about that ? I'm very surprised ...
Discussed before. Read this please: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120023&highlight=0808+0780
I guess somebody wants to rebirth or recreate 0780 and thus needs to 'sort out' this bit of history to clear the way ... Pete
Yes quite IMHO Auction catalogue this 2008/2009 Ferrari 250TR59 #0780 "And after 40+ years this vehicle was discovered in Italy during 2007 and amazing enough it was in what can only be described as "better than new" condition. Unfortunately we dont have any pictures of this car as found. Or any information explaining how it came to be stored for 40+ years. But we can reassure you that this car is real. Ferrari Spa's classic department stated in their report this vehicle contains parts with the correct type numbers. Estimate $5,000,000-$8,000,000." Do you want to bet that we wont see some version of this. LOL
some history on this car wil have to take us back to 250 TR 0772 which was original built as a test car in 1959. 1960 it became a factory team car and was run in the Targa Florio driven by Cliff Allison/Richie Guinther, DNF, crashed and then scrapped by the factory.However this car 0772 had been qualified to run as a factory car at Le Mans so TR 250 #0774 was renumbered 0772 to be eligable for LeMans and after the race the number on the chassis /paperwork was changed bsck to 0774. The car may have been the winning car at Le Mans driven by Gendebien/Frere. Now on to TR 60 0780 also raced at the 1960 Targa Florio by Phil Hill crashed and DNF.This car was then rebuilt by the factory using parts from 0772 and raced at the 1960 LeMans. During the winter of 1961 0780 was modified to TR 61 specs with the Chiti twin nostril front and kamm rear end and run as a factory car at the 1961 Nurburgring 1000, LeMans etc. During the winter of 1962 car then modified again at the factory with a 330 modified Super America engine installed to comply with new Le Mans regulations for a coimpetition sports category.A new chassis # was required as this car was no longer a TR 250 and #0808 assigned. Car driven at Le Mans by Hill/Gendebien 1st. and then bought by NART[Chinetti] and shipped to the USA where it competed at Bridgehampton, Mosport, Nassau etc. 1963 NART LeMans entry crashed and sold 1963/4? to H. Okada who had the car restored with a fantuuzzi berlinetta body installed and returned to the USA. 1974 car was sold to the Bardinon collection in France where it was restored to its 1962 Le Mans 330 TR configuration. The car stayed with Bardinon until 2002 when it was sold for $6M to R Meyers/J Spiro at the Monterey auction.2005 car was for sale by Sutherby's.There are several morals to this story[1] Ferrari often rebuilt competition cars for itself and for clients with major parts from wrecked cars and gave them new VIN numbers and build sheets as if new.In the 1950s/60s there was a large scrap yard at Ferrari of 'retired' race cars.[2] beware of anyone bearing gifts of long long lost Ferraris in perfect original condition even with "original" numbers. tongascrew george
This information is not correct. 0772 was never built by the factory and never existed. The Targa car was 0774 as per the the factory records.
hi thanks for the info. as we know even the factory records can be questionable at times particularly with the even numbered cars. if you can send me more detailed info on the "factory records" you refer to this would be helpful. thanks [email protected] tongascrew george
Another side note: A car was offered to me from Italy BEFORE Okada, alleged to have been made with major components of 0808. The body was similar to the berlinetta body (as owned by Okada) but was an open "spider" with hoop behind the cockpit. This body was painted gold, was by Fantuzzi, and was similar to the more well-known Chinetti speciale but prettier. When offered to me it came with an alternate body (the one on the car when sold to Okada). I didn't get the car as it was tied up in some sort of legal proceeding at the time, and didn't chase it as it was just another old race-car (!) What ever happened to that spider body? And what makes you think that Okada commissioned the berl. body?
Yes, Boudewijn, that's it. In fact, that looks to be the exact picture that was sent to me by my friend Roberto Goldoni. So where did the body go?
For those who don't know, the car is in New Orleans and gets driven quite regularly. Sometimes it even braves I-10 traffic going to the owner's place of work downtown. When I had an internship for the owner several years ago he drove an F50 to work as his daily.
Is it possible that this car was for sale on mobile.de? I remember seeing a car bodied like the one above and it said it s a 330. Martin
Ed, the info for my post of 2/16/07 came mostly from Forza #46, Cavallino #141/142 and "Ferrari, Fifty Years on the Track" by John Starkey et al. The info on the berlinetta takes two tracks [1]that the Fantuzzi body was made in 1963 for Okada who presumably then owned the car[2] Fantuzzi made the body in 1963 and the car was sold to Okada in 1965. Now i think option #2 is the more likely but i thought i would mention #1 and see what kind of feedback i got. I see that you think the car you considered was the spider as posted by Boudewijn. Could it be that the original Fantuzzi body was a spider and not a berlinetta? Or was the berlinetta modified into a spider? If Okada did not have the Fantuzzi body built, who did? it might be interesting to contact Bardinon and see what body the car came with when they got it. if i can find an e-mail for Bardinon i will contact them. tongascrew george
It would be easy to assume that the spider body was converted into the berlinetta. But when the car was offered to me it was clearly stated, "The car has a very similar coupe body, which could be put on if you think it would be better". More info from my old file: Steve Earle was at LM in 63, and saw 0808being driven by Pedro Rodriguez and Roger Penske. He said that it crashed and caught fire in the night. Chinetti then sent the car back to the factory, and had Fantuzzi build the bodies. Steve said he preferred the spider body (as do I). The car was completed as a GT in 64, and registered as such. My own file seems to answer my question, as it has a note that the spider body ended up on 8733. 0808 was offered to me on 4-20-65, for $11,000. My only picture of "the golden car" was sent to "Prancing Horse", published in 66, and never returned to me. Perhaps that's where Boudewijn got it? Another case of a non-functioning chrystal ball; $11,000 was way too much in 65!
Hi. what you are saying is that Chinetti had two bodies built by Fantussi, the spider and the coupe.. I did find an e-mail for Le Mas Du Clos[[email protected]] and sent them a message yesterday asking them if they had info on the car when it arrived there. You might do the same and see what you get back.Now, just to stirr the pot a little i got out the reports in the Sporting Motorist and Autocar for the 1960 Targa. They reported that Allison and Hill[P] were to drive the IRS TR250 "car recently seen at Le Mans". Allison crashed the car in practice and it was withdrawn. Yes there was a Le Mans test day on April 9, 1960[before the Targa] and Ferraris 0772 and 0780 were registered to run there and also registered to run in the race in June. 0780 was also entered in the Targa and was also crached resulting in both Le Mans test day cars wrecked..According to the feature article in Cavallion#80 on the 1960 Le Mans race winner[0772] it was decided to rebuild 0780 for Le Mans using parts from 0772 and 0772 "chassis serial number became extinct". my question is why did Ferrari have to renumber 0774 as 0772 for the Le Mans race and then renumber it back to 0774 immediately after. the apparent reason was that according to the Le Mans regulations any car registered and run at the test day must also compete in the race and as 0772 number was "extinct" so 0774 was twice renumbered. all i am saying here is maybe this accounts for the appearance at Classiche of 0772 never being built.It might be interesting to mention this to Classiche and see what they have to say. tongascrew george
Hi. what you are saying is that Chinetti had two bodies built by Fantussi, the spider and the coupe.. I did find an e-mail for Le Mas Du Clos[[email protected]] and sent them a message yesterday asking them if they had info on the car when it arrived there. You might do the same and see what you get back.Now, just to stirr the pot a little i got out the reports in the Sporting Motorist and Autocar for the 1960 Targa. They reported that Allison and Hill[P] were to drive the IRS TR250 "car recently seen at Le Mans". Allison crashed the car in practice and it was withdrawn. Yes there was a Le Mans test day on April 9, 1960[before the Targa] and Ferraris 0772 and 0780 were registered to run there and also registered to run in the race in June. 0780 was also entered in the Targa and was also crached resulting in both Le Mans test day cars wrecked..According to the feature article in Cavallion#80 on the 1960 Le Mans race winner[0772] it was decided to rebuild 0780 for Le Mans using parts from 0772 and 0772 "chassis serial number became extinct". my question is why did Ferrari have to renumber 0774 as 0772 for the Le Mans race and then renumber it back to 0774 immediately after. the apparent reason was that according to the Le Mans regulations any car registered and run at the test day must also compete in the race and as 0772 number was "extinct" so 0774 was twice renumbered. all i am saying here is maybe this accounts for the appearance at Classiche of 0772 never being built.It might be interesting to mention this to Classiche and see what they have to say. tongascrew george
if you want to see pictures of the fantuzzi coupe body on 0808 go to the 250 PF Coupe thread, go to page 15 and scroll down. aparently this body was wrecked and the spider body with the oval air foil was then instsalled. i haven't heard back from Bardinon but i am assuming that when the car arrived there it had the spider body.. tongascrew george
