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Factory "Build Sheet"- Education Please

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by jselevan, Mar 1, 2007.

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  1. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

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    #1 jselevan, Mar 1, 2007
    I seek information concerning factory issued authenticity certificates. I understand that many have gathered engine, transmission, chassis numbers and submitted them to Ferrari for authenticity certification, more commonly known as "Build Sheets."

    Is this service still available? At what cost? To what end? What is the value proposition?

    Your help is greatly appreciated. I have a dear friend, now working for Ferrari of Orange County, whose responsibility is to educate the community about this service. However, the information that he has given me seems somewhat different than what I have heard on F-Chat.

    Thanks.

    Jim S.
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #2 Rifledriver, Mar 1, 2007

    If you are speaking of John A. Believe him.
     
  3. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

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    #3 jselevan, Mar 1, 2007
    Yes, I am referring to John A., and yes, he is THE word of authority and knowledge when it comes to things Ferrari, and yes, I have known him well for 30 years. My question regarding build sheets was aimed at gaining information for myself and John. John was not aware of alternative sources for Build Sheets, and when I mentioned F-Chat, and my understanding that members were obtaining Build Sheets via the Ferrari Owners Site link, he became interested. Furthermore, I was trying to establish a price that F-Chat members paid for this service.

    Any help is sought and appreciated.

    Jim S.

    By the way - it is great to have John Amette back on the Ferrari side of Italy. For those interested, John, a Brit, worked in the U.K. during the 60s and 1970s with Michael Parks. He located to Southern California in the early 1970s, where he was an independent Ferrari mechanic. He was the man to go to for your Daytona, Lusso, Cal Spyder, etc., etc. He was recruited by the gentleman with the contract for Technical Service for Ferrari of North America, which he assumed the role of during the 1990s. All Ferraris that entered the U.S. on the West Coast passed before his eyes for inspection and service issues. He was the technical expert that Ferrari Dealerships turned to for problem solving.

    Approximately 6 years ago John was recruited to do the same thing for Lamborghini. He has been Technical Service Manager for Lamborghini during the past 6 years. For those who know John, it is a day of celebration that today, March 1, he is back working with Ferrari out of Ferrari of Orange County.

    p.s. - I apologize if I got some of his biography incorrect. I spoke with John earlier today, and received his permission to use his name in various posts.
     
  4. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    #4 of2worlds, Mar 1, 2007
    Jim S. thanks for sharing the information about your friend. Hard to put a price on experience but many of the mechanics don't seem to be treated too fairly...

    Various people have gone to see the 'build sheets' at the factory and many were provided for less than $100 in the past to order. On occasion the wrong serial number would show up. The problem would be fixed in weeks rather than the months claimed necessary to process a request. The build sheets just sat in cardboard boxes and even Ferrari did not know which ones were missing. It is only more recently that they have been seized on as a valuable piece. There are useful sources beyond the factory that hold much useful build sheet information. As always it is like looking for the needle in the hay stack.
    CH
     
  5. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
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    #5 jselevan, Mar 1, 2007
    CH - thanks for the information.

    John A. suggested that one of the value propositions is related to authenticity of some of the vintage cars, where re-bodies often use chassis numbers from other cars.

    The service performed at the Ferrari dealership (such as with Orange County), as I understand it, is that they will photograph the car extensively, obtain all of the appropriate numbers - engine, chassis, transmission, etc. - and send this off to Ferrari (Italy) for authentication. That the car is a different color, or the interior has been brought to a different scheme (color), is understood, accepted, and will not compromise authenticity. If wheels have been changed, as when an owner changed to Boranni, for example, likewise, would not compromise authenticity. However, different size wheels might.

    While during the 70s Build Sheets would be provided by the factory without cost, and during the 80s and 90s for a nominal amount, the value of this service has been recognized by the bean counters, and the charge is significant. However, this may be appropriate when authenticating a 6 or 7 figure value.

    Your thoughts? The more the better.

    Jim S.
     
  6. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 134282, Mar 1, 2007
    Jim, it's my understanding - and I could very well be wrong - that Ferrari used to charge, as you stated, a nominal fee for build sheets. But now I don't think you can obtain a set of build sheets for your Ferrari unless you have it certified. I could be wrong, but that's how I understand it.

    I know a small handful of people who are intimately familiar with build sheets, and the person on the top of that list is Gerald Roush at the Ferrari Market Letter. Give him a call.
     
  7. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #7 greyboxer, Mar 2, 2007
    Is this maybe related to the factory's Classiche program ?
     
  8. sjvalin

    sjvalin Formula Junior

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    #8 sjvalin, Mar 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You are thinking of the Heritage certificate. I got mine through the owners site for free, but I do not know if they still provide this. It is not the build sheet. Basically, you fill out an online form providing chassis, engine, transmission, and differential (or transaxle for those cars) numbers. If they match, then Ferrari emails you a pdf certificate that tells you the original colors and the build date. If they do not match, then you get nothing.

    I've attached my Daytona certificate.

    [EDIT] I just looked at the owners site and they have changed this a little. They no longer offer the Heritage certificate, but now offer an Original Color Certificate. You only have to enter in your car model, chassis and engine numbers, and you get a certificate that basically has all the same information as the Heritage certificate. This is free. I just entered in the info for my 365GT2+2 so we'll see what I get. Previously, I couldn't get the Heritage Certificate for this car because I don't appear to have a differential number.

    -steve
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. spiderseeker

    spiderseeker Formula 3

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    #9 spiderseeker, Mar 2, 2007
    Could someone please post pictures of the locations of the chassis and engine numbers ?
    (I'm not sure where to look for them)
     
  10. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 BigTex, Mar 2, 2007
    A Build Sheet is a very different thing from the Heritage Certificate and to my knowledge were not used after the mid 60s.....a 275GTB era car, if you will....they were 'numbers matching in that the engine and chassis were stamped the same ID.

    The Heritage Certificate covers the later cars after the Build Sheets were no longer used, certifying that (using my 1977 car as example) VIN #22127 had a gearbox stamped #XXXX and an engine stamped #XXXX (usually lower component IDs ONLY) and that if you still had the original one, a Heritage Certificate (.pdf file, not hard paper anything) was emailed out to allow you to print it and hang on the wall....

    In the case of #22127 the original engine was destroyed during Warranty so I never pursued this.....would be interesting to know if a SLIGHTLY later block number would be detected at all.......I suspect they are only able to confirm by batch number on the blocks and trannys.....

    Anyway the new Classiche Certification has apparently superseeded the free Heritage Certificate as they want to 'lay hands on' the car and charge you accordingly......

    I'm not sure of this though as the Heritage Certificate application comes and goes thru the Owner's Site like the Chesire Cat...next time I see a floating smile in a tree I'll ask HIM for the correct answer!
     
  11. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 BigTex, Mar 2, 2007
    Steve it varies by car...'search' as there was a great thread coaching where to find the numbers and how to fill out the old application on the Fcatory Owner's Site......


    This latest iteration apparently only comfirms OEM colors and some complain it reverses the exterior color with the interior!

    I put my VINs in the My Garage section of the site and they come back and confirm build date and OEM colors for you...I left it at that.......

    You'd think they could find me with a Rossa Ferrari subscription, but it doesn't seem to link to FNA at all.....LOL! ;)
     
  12. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 BigTex, Mar 2, 2007
    YOUR Chassis number is on top of the right rear fame rail.....

    F106AS*XXXXX*

    Frame design 106A..."S' for targa configuration, then the five digit VIN that should match your door plate stamping......don't forget the two 'stars' when you go for plates, it'll freeze the DOT computer right up!!!
     
  13. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 BigTex, Mar 2, 2007
    Did Daytonas have Build Sheets?

    That would be one of the last models to do so, IMO......
     
  14. spiderseeker

    spiderseeker Formula 3

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    #14 spiderseeker, Mar 2, 2007
    Thanks !
    Steve
     
  15. hg

    hg Formula Junior

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    #15 hg, Mar 3, 2007
    only the early ones
     
  16. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    #16 Jdubbya, Mar 3, 2007
    I was able to get a heritage certificate for my '78 308 before they changed it. In order to get the heritage certificate the engine, gearbox, and chassis numbers had to all be the same as the records show when the car left the factory. As far as I can tell that's about all that's still original on my car!

    I figure now that you can't get heritage certificates any more mine should add at least $10K to the price! ;)


    .
     
  17. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 BigTex, Mar 5, 2007
    I'll just modify that .pdf Form, posted in the Thread up there.....;)

    Thanks for the answer on Daytonas, that's the last model with Build Sheets, then.......
     
  18. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 donv, Mar 5, 2007
    The dealers are trying to sell the classiche program. I got a call a while back from my dealer asking if I was interested. I thought about it, and passed-- for my cars, it's just not worth it.

    And, like Tex, I already have the original color info from the owner's site (and, honestly, I knew that anyway).
     
  19. BwanaJoe

    BwanaJoe Formula 3

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    #19 BwanaJoe, Mar 5, 2007
    Now that is a great idea! Can anyone tell what Ferrari called its 308 silver color in 84? How about its read interior in 84?!?!

    Joe
     

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