4 Pt. seat belts for "Rachel"

Hey gang,

I'm installing new Sparco seats in Rachel, and I would like to incorporate a proper seatbelt setup as well. She's a 92 Mondial t Cab. with those funny mouse belt hook-ups (I crack up each and every time they move. Anyway, I don't want to tear the interior apart, as I'm not trying to be a race driver, just safe - in case.

Cheers, Hank

 

Hank,

Schroth offers various solutions and remember to get either Profi ASM shoulders if you do not plan to use a HANS or their HANS compatible shoulder belts.

 

I went with OMP 2 in. 4 point harness with push button release on my 348. Supposedly the push button makes them street legal. I had to special order them with clip ends from Northstar motorsports in IL. I have eye hooks already installed on my 348 challenge, but you order with regular bolt ends and hardware. WescoPerfomance in CA also has something similar. I went with OMP just because it's italian and it is the same harness used on the Enzo in Europe.

 

4 pt belts in a car without a cage/roll protection (or roof for that matter)? Not that you're all that likely to end up shiny side down, but if you ever do you can pretty much count on being a few inches shorter (oh and not likely breathing).

 

If you head passes the 'broomstick test' plus 2 or more additional inches please explain how having a 4-pt be less safe than a normal/stock Y belt?

 

Y belt allows you to get your body down low in the car when you roll. Can't do that with 4-point.

 

I can't see how it would be less safe in a 4 pt. restraint. For that matter if you are using a racing seat a 5 pt. I do have a 348 tb and a roll cage. It's got to be easier exit with single clip as opposed to two seat belt clips in the mondial and 348 with the auto belts. With stock seat I'm only an inch away from the roof. Upside down is going to hurt with either belt.

The only thing would in a frontal impact. I suppose you could argue that with a 4 pt. harness there is much less give and you could end up like Dale Earnhart. The Hahn's device is a little impracticle for the street. Without airbags and the stock seatbelts you could also put your head throught the windshield. I'm not sure which is better.

 

I'm unclear, are you doing this to track the car, or will you just be driving on the street? If just on the street, you should note that 4 point harnesses are NOT DOT approved for street use. Keep the stock 3 point harness for street use. There are a lot of good reasons for this, some of which have been mentioned. But I would not use a 4 point harness anyway. Without a submarine/crotch strap (i.e., a 5 or 6 point setup), you run the risk of knees being driven into the dash in the event of a front end collision.

IMHO, stick with the stock 3 point setup if you are just doing street driving. And keep it for the street, even if you are using a racing harness for the track. I do that in my Corvette, stock for the street, racing harness for the track.

 

The problem with the Mondial t and the 348 is that the lap belt and shoulder belt are seperate. The shoulder belt comes from the center and hooks to a mouse track by the door. Because it comes from the center it may not allow you to "get you body down low" in a roll over as it would in a regular 3 pt belt.

The lap belt is incorperated in the seat. The belt retracts under the seat and the clip is on the opposite side of the seat. If you want any kind of after market seat, you will need to use some sort of harness.

I don't know why you would submarine any more in a 4 pt harness vs. the standard retractable 3 pt. belt.

 

I'm thinking comfort might rule. If this is for street driving you won't like the competition belts.

A customer of mine was talked into a 4-point harness for his Miura. Great belts, woulda really held him in (no roll cage here either). They were really uncomfortable and restrictive to wear. In 10 years he NEVER used them (they were always in the way).

 

Guys,

Thanks so much for the input. Because I really have no intention of racing, save track days for "driver education" purposes, I think I'm going to try to use the existing chest belt along with a new lap belt. Once the mouse runs down, I have two anchor points on the exterior sides of each seat (one of the anchors for the lap belt) so I just need to install a new anchor point at the interior side of each seat. Shouldn't be too difficult. This would also work with a 3 point system using my chest belt as the trunk connection (behind the seat).

Cheers, Hank

 

Ok,

How about lunch this year ?
You think we can coordinate our schedules?

 

Remember, I have mouse belts too, so we definitely have something in common to talk about

 

Chris, are you coming to Viva's on Thursday?

Cheers, Hank

 

Gotta work

 

Can you tell us about these Sparco seats? I know every person is built differently, but I am considering options on Allegra and perhaps those seats will satisfy. How about some pics? I'd also be very interested in knowing how the rear legroom is affected by these seats. Don't laugh -- I gotta stuff the kids back there....

 

Hey Buzz,

I cant give you much info yet as the installation won't happen until Wed. 3/21. Once they're in, I'll talke photos of the seats in various positions so hopefully, rear seat room concerns will be answered.

BTW, I'm droolin' over your BBi.

Cheers, Hank

 

No need to droool!
Pull the trigger

http://www.sportauto.cc/inventory_ferrari/1984_BBi_512_Red/index.htm

It's all YOU! The perfect mate for Rachel !

 

Uh huh, how I wish I could And that would be the one, I can tell you!!

 

Hey Buzz, I forgot to add this-------------------

http://www.sparcoracing.com/product.php?productid=106&cat=21&page=1

 

Wow! Look at THOSE! Very different than the OEM "flat panels." I see these seats have great bolsters but do they offer some amount of squish?

 

Indeed. That's Michael's car -- msdesignltd. I saw it in the flesh at the Scarsdale Concours last May. Very very nice. And the seats are way more comfy than the Mondi.

I will be watching this thread closely. I have an 1989 car so I have regular 3pt belts, not the mouse belts.

 

It's 3/23! I'm dyin' to see the installation! Pics! Pics! Pics!

 

That is what logic would say but that's why you have a different job not a safety engineer. Nor am I for that matter but I have studied safety systems quite a bit. Anyway when you were a 3pt it is a passive restraint that locks with an inertial reel evenly top and bottom. A 4 pt has 2 laps 2 shoulders. You attach the laps then attach shoulders and pull tight. This automatically raises the lap and ultimate lock-up of you on belts is quicker resulting in encouragement of submarining. That is why you never use 4pts only 5,6,or7pts. The 5,6,7 pt antisub strap does not really prevent submarining by stopping you at the crouch. What it does first and foremost is to control the lap belt to allow it to lock-up quicker thus controling your hips. The quicker it does this with the least stretch decreases destructive K engery build-up. The only 4pts to consider are Scroth type ASM 4pts. They have a unique way they say to control the sub problem yet use 4pts. 5 and 6pts have their own advantages and 7pt trys to cover all bases. So if you are doing street stay OEM. If you are doing track read your clubs rules for safety system requirements. Be very careful doing it yourself. It is very easy to hurt yourself from thing that appear obvious but really are not. Crash dynamics is very difficult to understand. Designing for it is even harder.

 

Hey Buzz,

The guys at the shop just got back from Sebring and have another race this weekend---------so----------Rachel goes in next Tuesday. I wasn't going to push the issue -------

Cheers, Hank