Massa

Personaly i am rooting for the dude. I hope he kicks Kimis butt.

 

I'm cool with him, Bartster!!

Schumi seemed to like him as well, tossling his hair sometimes, in affection....he'll be OK. I predict he'll shine when the Iceman has Fate deal a cruel hand....

We all know that can happen.....

 

I like both of them. It makes no difference to me which one of them wins or doesn't win. I just want to see both do well often.

 

I agree with you 100%. I find myself defending Massa because there are so many people on this forum that just don't understand how an Italian team like Ferrari works. Massa has the edge right now from the team's perspective. He could lose it if he doesn't show well the next two races, but he does have the upper hand over Kimi with the engineers.

Will he be as fast(er) as Raikkonen? I don't know. Neither does anyone else of FChat. I have not been there during preseason, but from the people I know that have been at every open test, because he understands the car and the tires, they think Phil is faster than Kimi. But the rest depends on KR's learning curve, and how the team responds to his lack of development input.

But I do not care who is 2007 WDC as long as it is Kimi or Phil.

 

How exactly do you know this? And, let's say that he has some sort of favor with the engineers (whatever that means). How exactly does this quantify itself into faster lap times?

 

I think Massa did a great job.

While watching the race I thought he wasted a lot of time trying to overtake the two Hondas and DC. That easily cost him 10-15 secs which could have moved him up to 5th ahead of Fisi. I think Heidfeld would have been just barely out of reach. His eventual fastest lap was in 1'27" while Kimi was in 1'25" range.

But keep in mind Massa was the only one who finished the race on a 1 stop strategy. Thus he run on heavy tanks throughout and ran 29 laps on soft tires which were not ideal for long runs. The other top finishers ran under 16 laps on soft tires. So some of his lack of overtaking pace in the initial stint can be explained in that he was conserving his tires on a heavy fuel load and couldnt do any banzai moves then.

All in all a good job. I think Schumi or Kimi could have jumped Fisi in the end but I doubt either of them could have finsihed on the podium given Massa's situation.

 

Given the testing times I understood that you felt that way last week. But it is puzzling that you make these statements still after the Melbourne GP.

Somehow I can see it coming: Kimi will handsomely clinch the title with a massive points lead over Massa yet you will continue to find reasons for why that doesn't really reflect the true speed between the drivers and that the Scuderia still loves him more.

A few facts:
- In the interview I recently posted Todt mentions the top 3 driver of 06. Massa isn't one of them
- Some people found Todt's exuberance at the Melbourne podium even too much. Regardless it shows where his heart is.
- Kimi got Schumi's race engineer. It doesn't get much better than that.
- Kimi lapped Massa. That was on a dry track. Last time that happened it was Schumacher on a wet track. Makes me wonder what happens when it rains: Will Kimi lap Massa twice? Or three times?
- Oh and regarding the alleged love the team has for Massa: Let me just state, that things changed since Melbourne. And that's from a good source.

 

+1

 

Well Massa nearly lapped Schumi in Brazil 06. He had to back off a bit while Schumi took some time to get his tires to proper temp after being deflated by Giancarlo Dick Dastardly Fisichella .

So it is circumstances that dictate what happened in OZ 07 as it did in Brazil 06.

I think the real pace differential between Kimi and Massa is 0.3-0.5 seconds/lap.

So in a 60 lap race, Kimi would be at best 30 secs ahead - not enough to lap Massa

 

Haha, here we go again!

wait, don't tell me....it's gonna be Tifosi12 and Senna 1994 vs Tifosiron, myself, and Forza Tifosi....back and forth and back and forth.
Yet somehow, those of us, like Tifosiron mentioned, find ourselves defending Massa, not necessarily because we like him better but instead because we think he deserves a little more credit/respect than he is getting and don't think he deserves to be repeatedly bashed because he didn't come from LAST to WIN in ONE RACE!!! Amazing. Based on this logic, if Kimi messes up and puts the car in the wall next race and Massa drives flawlessly and brings home the win the tune won't change. Massa will have gotten lucky and Kimi is still the best driver. in the universe. ever.

 

ron,

i also am curious how massa could have any edge? ferrari's investment and desire for coverage on that investment lies in kimi. kimi is the big dollar guy at ferrari thus one would think (perhaps wrongly) that kimi is the fair haired boy?

as one boxer owner to another...you know i do not mean to joust but am curious as to your position.

pcb

 

Right on.

And just for the record: I like Massa. I even have a signed pic of him and proudly display it in my F1 collection cabinet at home.

I also agree that he has developed enormously as a driver over the last year and that he did two great drives to victory last year.

But he is no #1 driver. As others have stated he is where Irvine and Barrichello were before him. Driving the best car on the grid flatters the pilot.

I also believe he'll win some race(s) this year *IF* Kimi DNFs AND *IF* it doesn't rain AND *IF* Massa can start from the front. And that's not bashing him, but rather realizing his limitations as a driver.

PS: What's really funny is that we have this discussion here. Not sure it is a US thing (although GTE is from Europe). But from my many friends following F1 for years if not decades in Europe, none of them even considers Massa anything but a #2.

 

Now I'm confused. On Speed Channel during the pre race show, they said that Kimi brought his own race engineer over from McLaren. Not trying to argue here, just trying to figure out where I have my wires crossed up. Is there some other engineer that he brought over?

 

When Speed TV was doing their grid walk before the race, they pointed out Chris Dryer (sp?) next to Kimi's car. They made some comment as well.

 

Here's a quote from Matchett on the Speed site and sums up nicely how it is:

I agree that Massa could very easily let this get away from him if he doesn't stay focused and doesn't get rattled. I have a feeling that Kimi didn't even really push this past weekend and that the gap between the 2 may be significant. The way Kimi turned up the wick was impressive and I don't think FM has that ability. And Kimi still has more wick to turn up IMHO.

 

I have yet to see a shred of proof that Michael really gives a rat's behind about Massa. He wouldn't even sit at the same table as Massa during lunch! There's a great picture in F1 Racing magazine of Massa sitting at one table, alone, eating lunch and Michael at another table, alone, with his back to Massa.

 

You are all wrong. You are guessing, you do not have any contacts sitting on pit wall throughout pre season testing. Such arrogance.

I will post a new thread with excerpts from an article by Peter Windsor in the new F1 Racing magazine. He pretty much vidicates me.

 

He bought his personal trainer over - Mark Arnall. All the folks on the race engg team who worked on Michael's car now work on Kimi's car.

 

One more time; Massa is a great driver, he has to be to be at Ferrari in F1.
However he is not a superstar, not a #1.
He does his job just fine.
KR is the fastest driver on the track. He IS #1 at Ferrari.
Many are PO'd that he replaced MS and is thus the "enemy", whether they admit it or not.
Those that post FM WDC champ 2007 are either rooting for an underdog ( I'm OK with that ) or cant see the picture for whatever reason.
FM DOES have a shot at the 2007 Championship, as he is in the fastest make on the track as evidenced by KRs times, but only if KR falters. Or as I see it wish him to.

 

?!? What are you smoking??

Ah, yes, the mysterious team insiders that only you have privy to...of course.

What I find arrogant is for you to insist that you have this "inside" knowledge that completely supports your arguments DESPITE the very visible performances that anyone with a cable TV subscription can see.

I don't need an insider's report to see that Kimi blew Massa away this past weekend, by any measure.

Yes, I was also wondering how he would perform once he comes to grip with he car, seeing how uncomfortable and out of his depth he looked in Australia...

Or in other words, he lived up to one of the main criticisms about him, his inability to overtake. Kimi had no such problems with backmarkers. Your argument is the same thing as saying if Sato was only 2 seconds a lap faster, he would be a front runner too.

That makes no sense to me whatsoever. If you are going to run a one stop strategy (which by definition means driving a long stint between stops) then why would you go with a softer compound? Furthermore, Massa did use up the fuel during the course of his run, did he not? Or was he running the mysterious and top-secret self-refueling engine?!?

Neither of them would have had any difficulty passing any of the backmarkers that held Massa up. His performance, taking into account the fact that he wsa driving a Ferrari and not a Spyker, was mediocre by any standard.

 

One more thing; Massa obviously did a superb job in developing the car, its that quick. That initial stage is pretty much complete. The "mold" has been set. Data aquisition can now be used to tune it.
Now its time to race that car.

 

Someone should have told Massa that last week...

 

I don't think he is as good as Kimi Michael or Alonso as I had said earlier. But he is way better than the rest of them.

The rules state that you need to run at least one set each of the soft and hard compound during the race. I am not sure given this info why Ferrari chose a 1 stop strategy. All I am saying is that Massa did a good job. I feel Michael, Kimi or Alonso could have finished one or two places better perhaps.

About the fuel use, isn't it blindingly obvious that on average he carrying more fuel than someone on a 2 stop strategy. More weight = less speed

 

Not smoking anything, just listening to the experts, of which you are not. And my contacts are not mysterious at all. I suggest that you remove those opaque sunglasses and check out reality. The very visable performances on cable TV are quite opposite from your assessment. Massa did an excellent job in Melbourne despite the disappointment of a mechanical failure beyond his control. Starting dead last, trying to pass with a full fuel load any midpack car would be difficult for anyone, even Michael. Unless, you have driven F1 and you know better how a car performs in these conditions, I would suggest that you are blowing hot air.

Its pretty obvious you do not think much of Massa, but then it is pretty obvious you do not know much about Massa. No matter what is stated as fact, you will twist the fact to make a point. Fortunetely, your points are not valid.