F1 vs. NASCAR...not just another thread

NASCAR-Lap 1- left left left left, Lap 2-left left left left, snooze snooze Lap 54- oh boy a crash, snooze snooze etc etc. Driving a brick at 180mph is not exciting racing.

F1-The start is amazing, the cars are amazing, Mercedes, BMW, and Ferrari vs Ford, Chevy, Dodge and Toyota. Exotic locales. Exotic drivers.


Please share your outline with us, I'm sure we have some "experts" on her that can help.

 

Sounds like fun.... have you thought about the "soft skills" in the NASCAR vs. F1 or open wheel fan?

Why does NASCAR appeal to male and female fans, better than F1's male only fan?
Seems lots of women, watch NASCAR like its a soap opera

What is the percentage of people in the USA that have college degrees?
What is the percentage of F1 fans that have an advanced education?
(NASCAR fan....typical demographic?)

Did Tony George rip open-wheel racing apart in the USA and drop Cart and the Indy 500 from a premiere sport in the USA to a third rate sport? (Fewer young open-wheel fans in the USA.....means less F1 fans down the road). And in doing so, give NASCAR all the oxygen it needed to catch on fire and move from a southern
red-neck sport into a National Advertising and Sports phenomena?

What is the percentage of people in the USA that like Country Music ( I hear the number is growing)
What's the number of people that like Rock-and-Roll?
Can you tell a NASCAR fan vs. a Open Wheel or F1 fan based on their music preference?

Honda partners with the IRL, because open-wheel racing attracks young, males, with college degrees, and tech junkies. Honda wants to put their namebrand and cars in front of this exact demographic. What does F1 sell in the USA? BMW? MB? Its a great sport....but what is the business impact of F1 in the USA? ( I don't even have to ask about NASCAR - M&M's, Tide, Lowes,....everything in a persons common everyday life)

I would start your speech by explaining what F1 is

Number of people in your college class that watch F1 = 1
Number of people in your college class that watch NASCAR = 2
Number of college students that watch all types of racing = 10%
Number of people in the USA that watch F1 = .001%
Number of GUYS on F-chat that watch F1= 45%
( I'd do a fact check on my numbers, but you get the idea, 90% of your class is going to say- "what's F1?")

 

I am not going say anything that would support your hypothesis. I do not believe for one hundreth of a second that F1 is better than NASCAR. I enjoy both, only watch F1 on TV, and only have time to attend the USGP. But I find NASCAR to be my outlet for true competition and side by side racing that F1 can not provide.

Frankly, I do not see how you can even compare the two. These are two entirely different forms of motor sport, requiring two different kinds of driver skill sets. If you have been part of both, you would know NASCAR has its own difficulties and is no more or NO LESS difficult than F1. Just different.

If there is anyone awake or of any intelligence in your audience they would pick holes in your argument, or anyone's argument that one of these types of racing is better than the other. They are both basically entertainment on wheels.

NASCAR is incredibly popular in the USA, and is in fact gaining popularity in Europe and Asia. F1 one is gospel to most of Europe, South America, and Asia, but has virtually zero appeal in the USA. So how is one better? The market does not support your position.

I would suggest a better, easier, and more credible persuasive speech would be one that explains there is difference between the two and a true motor sports fan will find something positive in both. It requires a myopic approach to life to think one is better than the other.

 

While I agree with everything tifosiron wrote it would be an interesting demographic study to compare the two fan bases. Things like education, jobs held, incoming, foods, beverages, other sports that are watched, etc..

 

Tony, what I find rather interesting is that the demographics have nearly blended in the major closed course forms of motor sports. The so called "red-neck" in the USA is not much different than the diehard soccer "ruffian" that you also find in the infield at European GP's. Their diets and choice of music may be different because of their nationality, but they offer the same myopic attitude. NASCAR now enjoys a more affluent college educated fan than it did 10 years ago. Today, I do not think there are any less college educated fans of NASCAR than there are are college/university educated fans of F1.

Am I the typical NASCAR fan? College degree, I speak 3 languages, I listen to Whitesnake and Mozart, I don't eat fried foods or red meat and I belive in reincarnation. I drive an Audi and a Ferrari, but I am a Chevy man when it comes to NASCAR. I am president/COO of a real estate development company. I have the same seats annually for the USGP, Daytona 500, and the Indy 500. I have followed NASCAR for the last 30 years. I have followed F1 for the last 29 years. I went to Sebring again this year. Been to Monza, Monaco, Charlotte, and the Glen (I did not start the fire that destroyed that bus). I watched the Datyona 500 from home this year, drinking champagne. I watched the first race of the IRL season on TV last Saturday and hoped that Danica would do well. I would sell my soul to have a threesome with Heather Locklear and Hally Berry. Curtiss Turner and Lorenzo Bandini are names that mean something to me. Today, I cheer for Dale Jr. and anyone that drives for Marenello. I really enjoy watching NASCAR at Daytona. I realy enjoy watching F1. What are my demographics?

So what are the demographics in general in 2007 for these forms of motorsports? I do not think it would be easy to determine. Other than geographic/nationality differences, I think today a true race fan is a true race fan and appreciates all forms of racing.

 

I don't see how you can write any sort of presentation saying F1 is better than NASCAR or whatever. If you think F1 is better than NASCAR, that's great but it's your choice only. Many people will disagree with you on that. One isn't better than the other, they are just different. It's like saying baseball is better than basketball. Maybe you think so but some people don't feel that way.

 

Substitute Jessica Biel for Heather Locklear in that threesome and I agree with just about everything you just said. Although it really bugs me to see IRL cars on an oval. I also hope Sarah Fisher cleans Danica's clock on the track.

 

While I have no real interest watching bumper cars wearing plastic masks of production cars banging fenders while turning left, don't be too quick to dismiss NASCAR drivers. NASCAR is the big pond for US drivers. And when you put them in other machines, they've handed in some surprises at the Race of Champions in recent years.

Different racing venues have different priorities. It might be more informative to contrast NASCAR where banging fenders to wrestle for position is the priority, to WRC where cars are alone on the stage and vehicle control is the issue.

F1 is a combination of bleeding edge technology, vehicle control in corners, and passing without extreme contact.

 

You, my friend, are a unique modern racing renaissance man! That is exactly why I think the demographics would be very interesting. I spent much of my childhood in Europe, so I think I am rather unique here in the US. The few times I visted Italy in the past decade, I did not find a huge difference. My cousins drank beer and wine, wore jeans, tennis shoes and T-shirts and always on the hunt for the ladies.

Once again I agree. I may be the only one on this forum that actually watches those crazy figure 8 races where cars constantly cross each others paths I just do not get NASCAR. It could be that it is too big with too many personalities for my small brain, but I am not knocking it.

 

Seeing a Nascar race in person is quite an event.

I can watch it on TV, but sometimes it can be a little boring. But I will also say there are many F1 races that, after 4 laps, can be just as boring.

I love all forms of racing. As far as most entertaining on TV? MotoGP and ALMS are for me. Or GP2, but of course SPEED never shows the good stuff...

 

I can tell you where F1 gets higher marks than NASCAR.

Braking.

Acceleration.

Handling.

Speed.

RPMs.

Technology.

Innovation.

Bristol, Talladega, Darlington, etc. vs. Monaco, Sepang, Hockenheim, Monza, etc.

Lay down in a rocketship vs. crawl through a window into an aerodynamic(less) shoebox

Global reach. (yes, the world is shrinking, and yes, NASCAR is getting more worldly acceptance, but I don't think we'll see these guys packing it up to travel to Australia, Malaysia, Japan, Germany, etc. anytime in the near future.)

Here's my two cents: When I watch an F1 race, I can tell where they are by watching one lap. When I watch NASCAR, the only way many can tell where they are is if the announcers say so. (OF COURSE I can tell the difference between Texas and Bristol, so don't give me the "yer an idiot, they're all diffurnt" response)

Having said ALL THAT, I live in the South, and around here, if you don't know NASCAR, you can find yourself left out a lot. I can watch some races, and pull for guys like Tony Stewart(who needs to lose 15 lbs and get into open wheel!) and Jimmy Johnson. But I can't watch all races, the season is so long, someone please add up all those hours! And I get BORED! I can watch the highlights on Sportscenter, read about the results, and that fills my stock car need. Is it racing? ABSOLUTELY! But, IN MY OPINION, that's about all they have in common.

Of course, we could just settle this on the track.....

 

+1

Excellent post

 

I can tell you where NASCAR has higher marks over F1: excitement.

On any given race day, anyone of 20 drivers can win. How many F1 drivers have a legitimate shot at winning? 2?

I'll take that bet.

He was in open wheel, remember?

I don't think an F1 car would last too long running a 500 miler at Daytona or Darlington...

 

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I don't think an F1 car would last too long running a 500 miler at Daytona or Darlington...[/QUOTE]


I don't think many NASCAR cars will make it thru the first right turn in F1!

 

That doesn't make it more 'exciting', just more 'open' IMHO.

And, to those who claim "you can't compare the two", I say why not? [Returning to the baseball -v- basketball analogy there are certainly many who will *claim* one is indeed "better" than the other - Listen to the arguments and *then* make up your own mind.]

Remember the original poster is doing this for a "persuasive presentation" exercise - Pitch the "strengths" of F1 and the "weaknesses" of Nascar and then try and determine if you've successfully persuaded anyone......

As usual, just my 02c,
Cheers,
Ian

 

That is exactly my problem with Nascar. If anyone can win, it is nothing more than a toss up. An overtaking-manoeuvre means next to nothing.

I´ve tried very hard to ´get it´, but Nascar seems so awfully pointless

 

I'm not a real NASCAR fan... I respect the challange, and dont dispute that the top guys have real ability.... I think today F-1 IS interchangable with NASCAR... to me there is about the same skill level... ok perhaps F-1 guys are in better shape... they sure are alot younger... and you have tons more lengthy travel... but in essence ... computers do the heavy lifting, all you really have to do is hold on...you gotta have big balls for both... I'm not sure traveling at 200mph door to door is as easy as it seems... while making 4 left turns in a row...

I love the IDEA of F-1, but its just a shadow of what it used to be... when they went to groved tires, and made the chassis smaller and have limited engine size etc... its just not F-1 any more... its NASCAR with open wheels for the rest of the world.

F-1 used to be a specialized form of racing... the all racers knew was where the best raced... but today you can be anywhere.. NASCAR, IRL, CART, F-1, FIA/ ROLEX GRAND AM, ALMS... you have really good guys in all those series.

To me & for my attention and money - I go for ALMS... its got the right mix of fan access, cars are cool, and drivers I know... and Ferrari, Porsche, are in there racing it out.

 

Making a case of F1 being better or Nascar being better is highly subjective and debatable. I would rather try compare them on what stregths and weaknesses each have as a sport, entertainment for viewers, marketing tool for sponsors, demographics reached, technology breaktroughs, drivers competitiveness, business as a whole, etc. Let your audience decide which one they like (not which one is better).

I'm neither a Nascar fan nor I watch the races but F1 has a lot to learn from Nascar and the same the other way around.

 

+1

 

An F1 car would be able to many laps ahead, pit, sit still, cool the car off, eat a meal, watch some tv, then get back on the track and put in another few laps before taking another break, repeating, and winning the race by a large margin.


And I don't think a NASCAR would last too long trying to cut turns at Monza, Sazuka, Monaco, etc.

 

Sounds a bit like that lap around Silverstone they did a while ago in a regular car, a race car and a F1.

 

I do not believe your argument works. You underestimate the qualitites of a NASCAR vehicle. An F1 car running full throttle for 500 miles, would probably not make it unless the engines would be detuned substantially, slowing down the cars. F1 races are two hours or less. A 500 miler is approx 3 1/2 hours. So while you are in the pits with your F1 car watching TV, eating pate, Jeff Gordan would lap you.

A NASCAR race car has shown that they can work on road courses, probably not Monaco, but certainly the others you mentioned. I do remember a NASCAR demo race in Japan where the locals turned out in mass to watch. They even ran the cars in the rain using rain tires and windshield wipers. If you follow NASCAR, and understand it, you would know that although simple these are real race cars.

 

Just watch Talladega Nights. It has all the answers. And remember: They marketed the movie as a comedy, but it really was a documentary.

 

I would disagree. If in any form of racing an overtaking manoeuvre means something, it is in oval track racing. Actually to be accurate, it would be of the same importance in as in road racing, just that in road racing, overtaking is comparitively minimal. Its the ability to overtake that makes NASCAR more exciting to watch than F1. Although, I can not explain why I only watch F1 on TV, and not much NASCAR. In person, nothing beats NASCAR for ongoing excitement.

I can not speak for any one else, but I would love to see an F1 season where almost anyone can win. As long as the cars from Marenello win at the end, of course.