1963 250 GTE FRAME on eBay

I thought this was a rather interesting item on eBay. I can not even guess what the cost to re-create a 250 GTE would be? I guess you'd just re-create something more interesting (GTO) since it would never pass the "Marcel test" anyways.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-Ferrari-Frame-250-GTE_W0QQitemZ200093662418QQcategoryZ34200QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I hope the guys sells it, looks like it could be a fun project.

"1963 Ferrari 250 GTE Frame: Solid, straight, new pan rails, freshly powder coated. I saved this frame for a vintage Ferrari replica that sells for $250K and up and real ones sell for 2 million and up. I have the clear California title. Lack of time forces me to sell. These are almost impossible to find especially with a clear title"
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Dumb question: You can title a frame?

-dsd

 

I would think so, it's got a serial number of sort. If you sold all the parts off your car - EVERYTHING, but the frame, you would still have the title, I assume

 

so what is a frame and clear title worth?

tom w

 

Just watch, in a few months this will be called a hot "barn find"... later resurected, and sold for a tidy profit.

Seems that as of later other cars have be "restored" from much less.

 

For just another million or so, you could have yet another fake GTO, SWB or Testa Rosa! ARGHHHH!!!

 

No the problem is that people did that to cars that were in better shape than this is.

 

Gentlemen,

I would think that THIS frame is the residue from such a conversion.

Regards,

Art S.

 

If that were the case, seems to me that the title would've stayed with the recreation.

 

In California it is required to have a frame and body to get a Certificate of Title. No wheels, no engine, etc., but frame and body are required. Now, one could probably just through any piece of garbage body on this and get around the rule. I'm not sure about other States titling.

Steve

 

why not send it back to the factory for "restoration" ???

 

actually i think the bodies can be made for about 200k. of course in this case you need drive train too. that would surely be a minimum of what, 30k? and if you want gto spec stuff a lot more than that.

tom w

 

Are there coachbuilders around who already have jigs and forms for popular conversion models like the GTO?

 

You need a 250SWB body?

Retromobile auction in Paris a few months ago. I didn't follow up on the sale price.

After you've spent huge time and cost building a replica, you'll spend the rest of your life answering the question "is it a real one?".

Personally, I can't see the pleasure in that.
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Many Ferrari's of this caliber have been re-bodied, some several times. I am in no way claiming to be an expert but isn't the chassis and engine what makes a Ferrari a Ferrari? A car could be a rusted out shell or a complete wreck from an accident and if you had to beat and weld every piece of metal from scratch to replace the rusted or dented panels, no one would question the integrity of the car.

 

Fully documented:
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This is an endless discussion on Fchat!

In the case of rare early Ferraris, you would be surprised by how knowledgable most Italian car enthusiasts are. Many, many people will question the integrity of a SWB, TdF or GTO that appears out of nowhere.

I have had the experience some time ago with a very good Dino-engined Stratos replica, it felt much better when we upgraded to a genuine car.

You can make something look right, but its very difficult to capture the particular driving sensations and atmosphere of a real car.

 

If the real thing is $1M+ and therefore completely out of your price range, a correct aluminum-bodied replica with real Ferrari drivetrain for a few hundred thousand could be attractive. Also, you'll only get questioned if you show it at a Ferrari-specific car show or by the (extremely small) part of the general population that actually knows the difference between a 250SWB and a 250GTE. I also think that, as time goes by, rebodies will become less stigmatized.

Here is some info on what it would cost to turn that frame into a 250SWB...

http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/article.php?reqart=SCM_200611_SS

 

A replica will still always be a replica. Personally, I rather have a nice 250 GTE than a replica.

 

Define Replica? What percentage of the vehicle needs to be authentic Ferrari for you to stop calling it a replica and start calling it a true vintage?

 

Not to open a can of worms here, but why would it be considered and replica or fake and not something more like a re-body? I mean, it is a Ferrari, and I would assume that it would have a Ferrari engine (period correct even).

I know that this question has been asked many times in relation to 0846 (i.e., what part of the car makes it original/real and what part makes it a recreation/replica, etc.) but seriously, if it's still a rebodied Ferrari 250, isn't it still a Ferrari 250?

No dog in this hunt, but just curious.

 

The odds of that thing ever becoming a 250GTE again are somewhere between slim and nil, due to the expense involved in reconstruction and the resale value when you're done (although maybe it could be reunited with one of the GTE bodies piling up outside Heitbrink's facility).

As a result, the choice is either it sits as a set of frame rails or once again becomes a living, breathing Ferrari (albeit with a repro 250SWB, Testarossa or California Spyder body). I would rather see the latter.

 

Further to my above point about rebodies, we've already gotten to the point with CCCA Classics (i.e., Packards, Duesenbergs, pre-WWII Rolls Royces, etc.) where recent phaeton rebodies of cars that started life with stodgy limousine bodies are being accepted without question at major shows. It's only a matter of time before the same will be true with Ferraris....

 

A replica I would define as something that has been modified from its original form to look like something preexisting. Now the 400i that was modified to give tribute to Ferrari’s of the '60s, I have no idea what that is, that is whatever you want to call it. Percentage wise I would say 70-80% of the car has to be modified, it would depend on what percentage the drive train and frame amount to in comparison to the entire car. (30-20% I would think). The percentage is somewhat irrelevant if the car has be created to deceive anyone who looks at it. JMHO.