GT4 worth more than GTS or B | FerrariChat

GT4 worth more than GTS or B

Discussion in '308/328' started by rickjaffe, Apr 3, 2007.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. rickjaffe

    rickjaffe Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
    363
    houston
    Full Name:
    richard jaffe
    picked up a 06 classic car book by keith martin. it gives his company's impressions of current car values. The low end for GT4's was 19k which was lower than any of the GTS/B's but the high end of the GT4 was 40k which was higher than any GTS/B other than the 85 QV's. everything else topped out lower than the 40k listed for the GT4. Thought that was pretty interesting, though not consistent with what I've seen. I've never seen a GT4 sell or even ask 40k. Anyone have? And I've seen a couple reasonable ones ask under 19k. but maybe he's being predictive or spoting a trend.

    I still find it amazing that a 74 dino 246 is a buck fifty and my 75 dino 308 which has a bigger engine, and probably more fun to drive, probably has comparable number of cars is only 20k. Ok the 246 is nicer to look at, but 7-8 times nicer with 3/4 the engine. doesn't make any sense to me.
    maybe this is the beginning.
     
  2. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,999
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Rick, you're out of touch with the market.
    You can't buy a "reasonable" GT4 for $20k.
    You'll have a hard time buying a decent driver for $25k.
     
  3. rickjaffe

    rickjaffe Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
    363
    houston
    Full Name:
    richard jaffe
    maybe you're right; the guy at eurowerks who did my carbs said my car was worth 26 or more. I thought he was dreaming. It is very far from perfect. but it goes like a bat out of hell. makes me feel better since apart from the carbs I'm due for a belt change.


    but I thought I saw an ad for a blue one asking around 18, seemed like it was in pretty good shape.
     
  4. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,408
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    GT4s are on the move as they get used up......

    The GTBs and GTSs of course, cover such a range you almost have to quote the exact year and options.......
     
  5. rmdferrari

    rmdferrari Formula 3

    Jan 6, 2005
    1,383
    Gatwick, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    #5 rmdferrari, Apr 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Very interesting point. :) 246's are about 5 or 6 times the value of good GT4's this side of the pond, and if anything the gap is widening!!!

    I agree the earlier car is prettier, but that's the only advantage I can see (apart from the GTS's ability to go topless). Here's a pic taken back in Jan, the GT4 is mine and the 246 a Club Scud pal. Worth 5 times as much???? I don't think so.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. 208 GT4

    208 GT4 Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2003
    1,769
    Brighton (UK)
    Full Name:
    Dan
    In the UK GT4 prices are very seasonal. They are definately on the up at this time of year, but try selling one when the roads are wet and it's dark in the evenings. That's when I got my current one for less than $20k.
     
  7. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,999
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    20K US dollars? or Euros? Pounds?
     
  8. Argento839

    Argento839 F1 Veteran

    Oct 21, 2005
    9,103
    I love GT4s but $40K?? Again I love GT4s, but I doubt a GT4 will appreciate as much as a 308 GTB/S including my humble 2V injected 1980 308 GTSi. Some people rag on the way GT4s look but I really like them... That said, a 308 GTB/S is one of the most beautiful/recognizable cars ever made. A 308 GTB/S is a pretty big bang for your buck at $30K. I have to think there is upward pressure on them..... Also, you see a lot of 308 GTB/S' on Ebay but some of them are rough. When you really go shopping around for a 308 GTB/S, you find that it is pretty hard to find a nice one.... The nice ones sell for quite a bit. There was a '82 2V car here in AZ that was real clean that sold for $42K if I remember correctly. There was a really clean '85 308 QV spider that sold for $51K. They made 12,000 308 GTB/S so there a a lot of mediocre cars out there that are pretty rough....that drag down the values and give a false perception about what is attainable for $30K. I think any prospective buyer will figure out pretty fast that to find a really nice 308 GTB/S may cost them a little more than they thought it would and it will certainly cost more than a 308 GT4 of comparable condition no matter how cool GT4s are.....and they are...
     
  9. DavidDriver

    DavidDriver F1 Rookie

    May 9, 2006
    4,424
    Grass Valley, CA
    Full Name:
    David Driver
    I think there's a couple of misconceptions here.

    First off to rmdferrari; I think the comparison in the GTB/S vein is of the 308 variety, and not the Dino variety.

    Though I must admit, "You do have the Dino :p minator correct", but what's being compared here are 308's not Dino's.

    Apples to oranges, to some degree, (that's "grandmothers and frog's", for you Serbians out there! ;) ) to be sure. But they are both V8's. The 246 is a V6. A very VERY HOT V6 though. And probably my all-time favorite Ferrari. Even if it really is a... a...a... Fi.....oh gawd, I can't even say it!

    EDIT OOPS!! I take back what I just said. My appologies to rmdferrari! <blush> :/ rickjaffe DID mention the 246... I got sidetracked. But I'm editing instead of erasing, cause I still like my joke! :p

    RICK: Was the original article referring to the 308 variety of GTB/GTS and comparing that to the GT4??? And therefore your comment on the 246 was just a segue?

    (okay, okay, I'm hedging)

    ENDEDIT

    Secondly, Yes. I have seen a $40K+ GT4 for sale. It's the black one that won first place at the Newport (? IIRC) Concourse last year. Actually, I think they were asking closer to $50K and then I recall seeing it again for slightly less. And there are also quite a few other cars for sale in the high 30's. They're not selling at that price. But neither are the owners dropping the price.

    So if you want one.... Do the math.

    EDIT:

    Also... :D

    I have heard over and over again, and from many people here on this board who apparently race and have test driven Ferraris for a number of years, and owned a wide variety of Ferrari's, that the 308gt4/Dino is perhaps the best handeling Ferrari of that era. And it is faster than the later 308 GTB's and GTS's too.

    In fact, I was told of a certain black GT4 that was present on a very recent (So. California) run, and that except for the straightaway's, this GT4 was very easily able to keep up with 348's, 355's, 430's and a host of other much more powerful cars. Then again, maybe that's ONLY because he replaced the A-arm bushings with 355 bushings? NOT! But yes, he did do that.

    And not only that.... :D :D

    You can carry a reasonable amount of luggage for an overnight trip. And maybe even your golf clubs! And for you tall guys (like me ;) ) YOU HAVE LEG ROOM TO SPARE! And... You're feet aren't sideways and smashed into a cubby hole!

    So.... 2+2 doesn't lose anything in performance. And you get a utility upgrade.

    What's not to like?

    I agree though on this point. The lines of the 308 GTS/GTB are some of the most beautiful that Ferrari has ever made. and it's almost a shame they made so many of them.
     
  10. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,614
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Don't underestimate the power of 'nicer to look at' and 'prettier'.

    People buy old Ferraris for looks and warm weather cruising. It really doesn't matter which car is faster, or handles better, because you can't buy a new performance car in 2007 that handles worse or demands as much servicing time/budget.

    The more conservatively styled cars have never been the blue chips in the Scuderia, and four seaters don't pack the romance that two seaters do. Look at the V12 400 series saloons. That's a real Ferrari V12, and they don't fetch as much as a nice 308 GTS QV.

    That said, I think you're right that it's a good time to buy a GT4 if you've wanted one. Few people are looking out for them; ditto the 308 GTB/GTS.
     
  11. 208 GT4

    208 GT4 Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2003
    1,769
    Brighton (UK)
    Full Name:
    Dan
    £8650 GBP, which is quite a bit less than $20000 USD. I also passed on a mechanically sound one with rusty arches which eventually went for £7300 GBP. The same dealer that I bought mine from had a GT4 that had just undergone a complete body restoration for £27,000 GBP.
     
  12. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 26, 2001
    33,460
    E ' ' '/ F
    Full Name:
    Enzo Gorlomi
    Yeah, it is. People buy Ferraris for 2 reasons, looks and performance. A vintage Ferrari is all about looks, as none of them are performers by today's standards. The 246 Dino is a knockout. The 308 Dino, not so much. I like the 308, but I lust after the 246.
     
  13. rickjaffe

    rickjaffe Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
    363
    houston
    Full Name:
    richard jaffe
    couple concepts to throw in:

    a ferrari is a ferrari is a ferrari (at least to non-ferrari owners);

    guy pulls up next to me on montrose. in some new expensive car (they all look the same to me). and asks "is this a testarossa?"

    same point:

    my wife's boss who is an internationalist (ie travels the world, was a diplomat, so gets around) insists after seeing my car that he saw the same car advertised for 80k. "identical car." which of course he didn't because while there may or may not be 40k GT4's, there surely are no 80k ones. and probably won't be in this half of the 21st centuary.

    POint being that to most people, a ferrari is a ferrari is a ferrari, and while probably everyone might think that the 246 or the 308 GTS/B might look alot better, I'd bet no non ferrari owner or non-afficiendo would guess that a six cylinder 246 costs 7 times times what an 8 cylinder GT4 which is one year newer than the 246. course I also don't get how a 365Gt4 or whatever is 5 times cheaper than a daytona coupe which has the same engine. But that's just me.

    despite the angularity of the GT4, in red anyway, it screams ferrari.

    Personally I'm into the most bang for the buck, and regrettably my bucks are limited, which is why the GT4 made sense to me. Better handling than the GTS/B, same engine, 3-4 times rarer (2800 world wide instead of 10k, and only around what 450 in the US) at 2/3rds the price. No brainer for me.

    I'd love to have a 246, and might just be able to get into one if I sold off all of my classics, but that would be much worse bang for the buck, at least until I have alot more bucks. My thougts anyway.
     
  14. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2005
    661
    Sparks, MD
    Full Name:
    Alexander Leventhal
    At least part of what is going on here, vis pricing, is that Series I gt4s are elligible for many US vintage events (e.g. New England 1000, Texas Mille, etc.) whose cut off is 1975. A gt4 is a very cheap, reliable and comfortable ride for one of these events (I know, I took 2nd overall in 1st in class in the NE 1000 in 1998 with the gt4 (#10704), and 1st overall in 2000 with my 365gt (#13141)) and they are great fun - nothing else in the price range will get you in in such style, and a 308gtb or gts is simply not elligible. With such a small number of Series Is available to begin with, this definetely puts upward pressure on the pricing.

    A
     
  15. cptndon

    cptndon Formula Junior

    Jan 24, 2005
    435
    Annapolis
    Rickjaffe,

    Which book are you referring to? Is it "Keith Martin on Collecting Ferrari"? If it is, keep in mind that the book is a compilation of articles from the magazine and the price references are not up to date.

    Another factor re 308s is that there are several versions all in differing conditions.
     
  16. eric lipper

    eric lipper Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    172
    Rick, a little off message here but if Eric at Eurowerks says that he can get you a number for your car he is probably pretty accurate on the market in our part of Texas. He has been massaging these cars for a long time and seems to know about everyone (especially in SW Houston) that would have interest in these cars. He has worked on my 328 for 10 to 12 years after FOH lost interest in working on the car. I have owned the car since new and I have seen the prices rise and fall. Believe it or not I bought the car in 1986 for about $68,000 and in the 1988/89 time frame they were selling for around $80K to $85K. Since that time it has been a slide down and now (especially for the cars in Houston) it has been flat, flat, flat on prices. The real number on a 328 here -- mine is extremely clean, one owner, no paint work, red, tan, 38K miles -- is somewhere between $35 to $42K. I would suspect that your car would be worth less. Also, and in my opinion, most of the really strong numbers are quite exceptional cars marketed by pros and are really not representative of real world values.

    On a separate note, I saw a 1997 355 spyder on Barrett Jackson go for $70K last weekend. I think it was a good color as well -- it may have been red. Whether or not you like 355's, when they start trading that cheaply at Barrett Jackson it cannot reflect well on the market for the rest of the cars.
     
  17. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,408
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Where is this shop?????

    Real nice yellow/black 355 coupe at FoH for $72K....last month ...
     
  18. Beta Scorpion

    Beta Scorpion Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2006
    1,379
    Well, I grew up drawing Carabos and Modulos and various wedge shaped creations, all through grade school. To me, the GT4 really looks great compared to the more dated 246.
     
  19. rickjaffe

    rickjaffe Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
    363
    houston
    Full Name:
    richard jaffe
    not that one: it's his book on collecting classic cars in general. he lists the prices of most collectibles with a two factor rating system.

    the upper end price of the GT4 was 40 which was higher than any GTS/b up to the 85 QV. the low end started at 19 where the low end of the GTB/S started at 22.
    just one company's opinion though
     
  20. rickjaffe

    rickjaffe Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
    363
    houston
    Full Name:
    richard jaffe
    not sure that's relevant to fully depreciate and classic cars. the 355 will surely drop another what 10 to 30%. can't see why it wouldn't be worth a high end 328 is now in 10 years.

    depreciated classics should be flat or at least go up with inflation especially for non beaters.

    eric does seem to know his stuff. I've got the 87 928 I just bought in with him now for timing belt and water pump. He is a spectular silver 911 DP turbo look in the front now. It was all I could do to ask what it's worth, but I'm sure it's above my pay scale.
     
  21. Argento839

    Argento839 F1 Veteran

    Oct 21, 2005
    9,103
    Andy, good point. Someone should take on the Series 1 car that is on Ebay right now and that is out here in Scottsdale.... I saw it in person - it can be fixed up pretty easy....
     
  22. rmdferrari

    rmdferrari Formula 3

    Jan 6, 2005
    1,383
    Gatwick, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Good point, I too feel the 246 is more dated in looks, even though they are but a year or so apart from end of one... begining of another. I think the GT4 shape is ageing better than most, and I'd include 246's and 308 GTB/S's in that group of "most". This is partly due to the sheep mentality of so many who only look to the obvious choice.

    I still believe the 246 to be a "prettier" car, but I'd say the GT4 has more of an impact and is also so obviously a classic Ferrari aswell.

    Worth 5 or 6 times more??? Can't argue with the figures that confirm they are, but it just dosen't stack up for me.

    ..... now, a 512BBi for 3 times the GT4 price. Yes please!
     
  23. rickjaffe

    rickjaffe Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
    363
    houston
    Full Name:
    richard jaffe
    I also get a 512bbi at 3 or 4 times a GT4, 50% more ferrari engine, and to some the only proper number of cylinders a real ferrari has; I could almost see spending a couple GT4's on that

    but two thirds the GT4 engine, and one year difference, don't care how "Hot" the six is.
     
  24. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,999
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Amazing how many guys don't know the difference between a 246 Dino and a Dino308GT4.
     
  25. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,614
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Not sure about either of these observations...

    People feel compelled to stick Ferrari emblems on 308 GT4s to help the general public recognize that it is a Ferrari.

    I would guess more people consider the 246 a classic than would say the same about the 308 GT4. The 246 is obviously 1960s, but it gets a lot of love. The GT4 is the 1970s wedge, and may have its day, but 'wedge' and 'classic' don't seem to go together -- yet.

    That said, the GT4 may be the smarter buy now, because 246s have already exploded in price and 308 GTB/S's in nice shape have always been hot cars in the market. I've seen a bunch of GT4s at shows, and it has aged a lot better than its contemporaries from Lambo and Maserati.
     

Share This Page