Formula shift follies

not being an F1 owner I can't describe the experience, but I know that Ferrari continually develop and improve every aspect of their cars, F1 transmission included. I think the 360 shifts in 15 milliseconds, and the newer 599 shifts in 10 milliseconds.

I don't know if there have been minor adjustments made to each new model year's parts, I'd assume so--providing it isn't a 'from scratch' development that needs extensive testing and production time to become fully beneficial.

 

according to Ferrari, the shift times are 100 milliseconds for the 599...not 10. that's a big difference. boxes in F1 cars can't even do in 10 milliseconds.

 

The Corvette steering wheel shifters and the F1 are 2 different animals....2 different technologies that cannot be compared. I LOVE a 6 speed in both my Vette and my 360 spider. I am a 6 speed guy. I drove my friends 430 with an F1 for about 45 minutes. I am ordering my 430 with an F1.

 

You're right, my mistake: 150 for the 360, 100 for the 599

 

They're two different technologies designed to do the same thing. I think they should definitely be compared. All that really matters is how a system feels, not the reasons that it feels the way it does.

Not having tried either system, I'd be interested in hearing others' experiences. I thought the paddle shifters in a C55 were amazing (which is an auto underneath), but maybe F1 transmissions are even better.

 

paddle shift automatics vs F-1? intent vs execution? not even close. you don't have to put 'maybe' in front of 'F1 transmissions are even better'... from owners, system in 599 is surely the best yet, and will likely get even better...

 

Try catching 0.09s on a stopwatch. To be honest I don't think I (or the general non racing driver user) would notice the difference...

 

I have gone to Paddle Shifter in my 360 in the last six weeks up to that point I was a manual transmission guy I have to say the Paddle shifter is a lot quicker than the six speed and for around town or in Freeway traffic is a lot easier to live with. As to C6 v Ferrari dont know but agree with the other Post on that it is ultimately the driver feel and for most of us that are not racing where 100ths of a second matter I am not sure you can tell. Even Ferrari driver to driver and car to car will get differing reports on how the feel is.

 

Why? It sounds like you don't have any first-hand experience either... At least for the older iterations, there were plenty of reviewers complaining about F1 transmissions. The low speed smoothness in particular sounds like it is (was?) an issue. I don't know if other characteristics make up for that.

 

I notice that the Maserati Quatroporte has gone back to torque converter with manual shift (kind of like a Tiptronic) after the same complaint, and they are claiming that there is not a discernable loss of performance. I talked to an F1 Quatroporte owner a month or two ago and he said it was pretty clunky for a four-door luxury car.

What has always bothered me about this F1 concept is that with a clutch and a stick, I know what I am going to do ahead of the car. I.E., if I want to declutch and coast along with heavy traffic, I can. If I want to jump up 2 gears or down 2, I can...If I want to know if I am in reverse, I can look at where the lever is. If I want to rev the engine up at a light, I can. And there is always the pleasure of a perfect double-clutch heel&toe downshift even if you are just pulling into the parking garage.

I think that F1 transmission is a brilliant marketing ploy to get people who cannot drive a stick to think they are smarter and better than us traditionalists - at a hefty price premium.

James
- and I know that I am standing like king Canute before the flood on this, so flame away, you progressive guys with an F1...

 

I tried the F1 transmission 3 years ago in a Maserati, and then 2 years ago in a 575, and both times did not like the way they shifted. I expected full throttle shifts to be video game-like, but instead you got a rocking motion while the transmission shifted. I know with more experience around town, I would have gotten better on smoothing up the normal shifts by letting off a little as it shifts, but still would not have bought one at that time.

Now I am a believer. Drove my neighbor's 430 Spider and it shifts like the video games. Very smooth around town, and no lag at full throttle. He is a 6 speed guy also, and we are now convinced it is the way to go. Should really shine at the track also.

 

I drive a stick because I LIKE driving a stick. The lower maintence costs and longer clutch life are just a bonus.

 

Paddles are for whimps.

 

Indeed, and a "whimp" is only one letter away from a chimp.

So, the moral is - don't you be the girly-man - you need at least 400hp and a really heavy clutch and an aftermarket shift lever kit.

Seriously, maybe we need a poll on this one - if F1 just the "front wheel drive" craze of this era, is it here to coexist with traditional stick shift, or is it going to eventually make it impossible to even buy a stick and clutch?

I predict something like what happened in the 1950s with the early autoboxes...they killed out 3 on the tree, but a few sports-car diehards kept the 4-speed (5,6 later) tradition alive. I think they will eventually take maybe 80+ % of at least the high end sports car market, but there will always be a few traditionalists and that traditionalism might just come back in style after a while (like rear wheel drive).

 

I can do all those in an F1.

 

But is it as really as much fun?

James

PS, I can get two of my conventional 6-speeds to obstinately block 2nd gear and force me into 4th in order to save the planet, or at least GMs CAFE rating.

PSS - OK, you got me. Just how exactly did you get it to double-clutch?

 

I think more so but then I am also one of those guys that think 4 wheel brakes, disc brakes, syncronized transmissions, rubber tires, metal wheels, self starters, fuel injection, windshield wipers, steering wheels, electric lights, hydraulic brakes, roll up windows, spark plugs and an assortment of other inventions actually served to improve my enjoyment of cars...but then, I am not technophobic.

 

I respect that...but I have not driven one of these past the old Sportomatic and the later Tiptronic.

So, how DO you manage to get it do double clutch?

James the Luddite

 

Double clutch??

Why would you?

Do you mean skip gears?

 

No, not usually to skip gears, and not on every downshift either...but sometimes I do it when trail braking into a curve just because you can kind of feel the RPM match just right and make a smoother downshift. And also because it is a fun thing and feels and sounds good when done right.

With the old stick and clutch you can also drive without declutching if you have to, if say your clutch cable breaks...

Look, Rifledriver - I know full well that I am on the unpopular side of this one. F1 is certainly taking over & your point is valid - there is always a way to have fun with the equipment you have at hand...especially Ferrari equipment. I bet the new buyers are going 2 to 1 or more for the F1.

- but you have to understand that I have only owned an automatic transmission for my personal car twice now in over 40 years and over 30 cars.

Maybe I am just destined to drive old stick cars and fly old stick taildraggers for the rest of my days while the new century passes me by...

James
(going back now to read anti-technology rants in the Unibomber Manifesto)

 

You can skip a gear with an F1? How?! First I've heard...

 

Both transmissions have their adherents and thats great but I really only take up the F1 cause because there is so much very vocal and often badly informed opinion against it. Most that do not like it have little experience with it or their experience was with one of the large number of them out there that have never been made to work correctly.

I am also amused by the fearful that worry about the demise of the stick shift. Ferrari developed and owns rights to the system originally concieved for F1 racing. That everyone knows. But what many do not know is that the street cars are being used as a test and development device to further the system and promote it as an evoloutionary replacement for the conventional automatic transmission. It is lighter, cheaper to build in mass production, and has far superior (more energy efficient) power transmission qualities. All very important in an environment of high fuel costs and emmission conciousness.
Is is adaptable to cars, trucks of every description, busses and motorhomes. It was never intended to replace the stick shift transmission. It is only the market place demands that have caused it to take the large position that it has.

 

Flick the lever twice (or as many times as you like) rapidly. It will begin the **** to the next gear but will abandon the process and go to the subsequent selection. I do it regularly. It will do it pretty quickly especially if done at full throttle.

 

Ok... just thought that the double gear flick might actually take longer than the gearchange itself, therefore rendering a straight 2gear skip impossible.