Malaysian GP***Spoilers***

Ron, i rarely disagree with you, but i have to disagree on this case. i think Ferrari came here with a conservative strategy. we all knew from the start that there were concerns about Kimi's engine.

i think everyone at Ferrari wanted Massa to have a clean start and hold position. but everything backfired when both macs overtook Massa. Massa was way faster than LH before he went offtrack. and FA ran away with LH blocking him.

so, i'm don't think the Macs were faster than Ferrari today. i think they just wanted to prove a point, while Ferrari decided to take this race as a damage limitation race. the way Kimi was smelling the exhaust pipes of LH says that Ferrari did have the speed, but they chose not to use the speed.

next week will be another big test for Ferrari. desert race, it's gonna be hot, but they'll have fresh engines. my money is on both Phil Massa and Kimster to bounce back.

 

anybody saw the post race interviews when FA said his radio broke, and he came to his 1st pitstop 'hoping' the team was there waiting for him

i can't imagine him pulling to his pitbox only to find the team inside the garages

 

I just got up. I stick by what I said before about Massa, nothing that happened today changes that. Look real hard at the situation before making such general armchair quarterback comments.

Why not blast Kimi for not even making the attempt to pass Hamilton? On the surface it appears Kimi did nothing spectacular. At least Massa tried. The fact remains, even Kimi would not have been able to pass Hamilton, so neither Ferrari driver can be blamed for today's performance. Kimi did as well as he could under the circumstances. The fact is the McLarens were just faster on race day than the Ferraris. Why can't you just admit that? Kimi did not have the car to challenge Hamilton, not at the beginning and not at the end. Catching up is one thing, passing is another. Massa followed pit instructions and at least tried.

The McLarens were faster (Brian, I really think they had the superior package for race day).

Massa was being told by the pits to get around Hamilton. He had the lighter fuel load of the two Ferraris, Kimi was instructed to hold back his revs, that was the prerace team strategy. He tried very hard, but Massa did not have front grip sufficient to make that move work. Wing the car for top end or wing for grip. Team chose top end, probably the right choice for this track, but cost them the race. Have you considered team orders?

The McLarens were faster.

Todt realized that passing in the pits would likely not work as the McLarens were faster, and their pit work is just a good as Ferraris. Today, maybe better.

The BMW's were quite fast and not because of low fuel loads. Even Ron Dennis acknowledge that prerace. Why does everyone assume it would been a cakewalk to pass the BMW?

The McLarens were faster today. BMW Sauber made an excellent showing.

I would say the Ferrari drivers did as well as they could, its up to the engineers to come up with the edge for Bahrain. Some of you are going to try to blast one driver or the other based on your personal prejudice not what realy happened on track. Its just not worth the reponse anymore.



My question, why is pole at this track on the outside? Did I see that right at 3 AM? That is what gave Alonso and Hamilton the edge on turn one. The Ferraris were on the outside. Although BOTH Ferraris had mediocre starts, they could have held the inside position if pole was on inside.

Would they have held off the competition after that? I think the McLarens would have had the same problem passing, but McLaren pit work was better today, I believe Alonso would have won anyway.

The McLarens were faster today.

 

Awesome job by Hamilton - he is something special. He has shown that he has a good racing brain - fantastic overtaking into turn 1 and holding off Massa and Kimi quite ably. Alonso was also really good today.

I think Kimi did an okay job considering he had to nurse the engine throughout most of the race. Massa was hopeless today and squandered away valuable points. Ferrari must be kicking themselves today for not winning the race.

Good job by Heidfeld and Fisichella as well.

 

I still say Massa is an excellent #2 team driver. The McLarens were simply better than the Feraris today.

 

Massa lost way too much momentum cutting wide for T1 --- but subsequent turns seemed to indicate that the Ferrari simply didn't have the grip to push harder.

You could argue that he should have been wider earlier if he needed that much radius to make the turn, but it might have only been under braking that he found out the grip wasn't there.

For cars supposed to be in parc ferme after qualifying, the Ferrari in the race didn't look to have the handling it had in Q3. That's got to be tires and wing.

It does look like Hamilton reacts to changing situations better than Massa does. It's hard to pass someone who isn't making mistakes.

Fisi did push Kimi way back from Hamilton in the first stops. But at the end, I wonder how much Hamilton had just turned the settings down to get to the finish. It looked close, but given the laps remaining, there was never any chance Kimi was going to be able to get by. (Barring a mistake from Hamilton. But he just didn't seem to make any all day.)

The Ferraris just got out-performed and out-driven. Hamilton is going be trouble.

 

If MS was behind Lewis...I'm sure the pressure would have been that much more & the britan would have cracked under that type of pressure.... but regardless I found it to be a fun race to watch .....FORZA FERRARI !!!!

 

The sad truth - I hope i am wrong - is that McLaren has the superior drivers package compared with Ferrari. Kimi might be better or as good as Alonso but Hamilton is definitely quicker, more confident, and definitely more dependable than Massa. Hamilton is a future world champion - perhaps as early as next season. Massa had the slightly quicker car than Hamilton (and lighter fuel load) - that was obvious from the live feed. He made 2 clear driving errors in the same corner which is what cost him the race as well as the poor start from the line - running unecessarily wide into the first corner instead of holding his line. Massa for some reason has problems passing cars with close to equal potential - we saw this last season too. He is a quick driver but does not have the race craft to deliver properly. Or, he needs constant encouragement to make him push hard and have confidence. I definitely believe that had it been MS in Massa's car and on pole he would have won the race. More so, he would have found a way around Hamilton had he fallen behind. We really missed MS today and I am praying this will not be the story of the season - errors and near misses. I think Kimi did a great job with a crippled car and showed real guts in trying to push. To win the championship, we need to be able to eek out wins on a level platform. If our hope is for Ferrari to simply have the faster car and cruise to victory I do not think we will be in luck. I suspect Massa's performance this season will impact on whether he will be driving for Ferrari in 2008. So, he has a lot of pressure. I like Massa though and I hope he does do better and learns from today. That is what we all hope for. This was a frustrating race for all of us. We need a 1-2 in Bahrain!

Forza Ferrari

 

It would have been interesting to see Schumi apply "the Red legend".

But we've seen Alonso stand up to that pressure. I'm not entirely certain Hamilton would have succumbed to it, but certainly a seven time WDC in a Ferrari would have been more intimidating than the sorcerer's apprentice in a Ferrari.

 

Lewis Hamilton is the real deal, wow. I wasn't so sure last race, but this guy has ice water running through his veins. The dude is going to be a WDC one day.

 

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/57929

"Hamilton said later that he had tricked Massa into making the late-braking move that saw the Brazilian slide across the grass."

Hamilton should have won this race not Alonso.

 

Thats exactly what I was thinking, I had to rewind it twice to make sure but I just could not believe that both Macs had the inside line into turn one, it allowed Alonso, who simply kept even with Massa, to take the lead out of the first corner. Had Felipe had the inside line I think he would have come out of the corner ahead.

I have to disagree about The McLarens still winning. I think Felipe and Kimi both showed the Ferraris had the speed to win the race if given the opportunity, the Macs and Fcars are so closely matched for pace that an on track pass is nearly impossible which makes me think that Felipe could have won from P1. While he certainly showed today that he is not the best under pressure he has also shown us that with an open track and a fast car he can carve out fast laps all day and simply run away from the field.

Hopefully new engines will bring better luck next week (oh, and having pole on the inside of the track )

 

Wow, I just looked at the results since I don't get the Speed channel. Interesting results, I wasn't expecting that! Wish I could have watched the race.

 

As I said, Hamilton appears more dependable than Massa meaning he is at present making better racing decisions. To me, that shows really deep talent and confidence. If we are to hope for a clean track with no one in front of Massa for him to shine, we will lose this year's championship. This is going to be a real battle and we will have to find a win with equal or even a slightly slower car to be sure we will be world champions again. I agree that MS breathing down Hamilton's neck would have been far more pressure than having Massa in the same position. I also do not think MS would have made the same type of mistake Massa did on 2 occassions in the same corner. Anyway, we have what we have. I shall hope and pray for Massa to get some kind of inspiration even if it takes having MS at the races talking to him on the radio.

Forza Ferrari

 

Surprised at the number of posts giving Massa points for effort: "at least he tried." To paraphrase, I think, Damon Hill, only your mother remembers that you tried. He needed to overtake and pull away from Hamilton, he seemed to have the faster car, and he couldn't get the job done.

I also like Massa, and truly want him to succeed; today's race made me begin to doubt him.

 

Talk about looking at the situation. That you can say that Massa did the best he could is laughable. He was on pole and he finished 5th. Kimi started in 3rd and finished 3rd, with a car that had performance issues. How can you possibly say that Massa did a good job or an equal job to Kimi?

Your definition of 'trying' is going off track? Not all drivers make it so obvious they are "trying" by going sideways or going off track. Some drivers have more ability and know their limit and can approach it without screwing the pooch. Massa is not one of those drivers. Michael is, Kimi is, Massa isnt. As for Kimi not passing Hamilton, thats your opinion - it was obvious in the opening laps that Hamilton was holding up Massa, and it was obvious Massa was holding up Kimi. Massa made it by Hamilton twice, just couldn't make it stick. Kimi was faster, he could have made it by AND made it stuck. As for neither driver being blamed - you must be smoking something real good. Massa had pole - he lost fair and square to Alonso on the start, I admit. He had 2nd. He let Hamilton get it because he did not prevent a slower car from getting by him. BIG mistake. Then, while he and Kimi were close to Hamilton, he failed to let his faster teammate take the shot. Another mistake. Then he tried to make an overly optimistic move and lost it - twice. Another mistake. This caused Kimi to let off, obviously, screwing Kimi and himself, and the whole team. Good job, Felipe!

Funny because Massa was clearly faster in the beginning than Hamilton - or did you not see Hamilton running 11/10ths to keep Felipe behind him? Even the commentators mentioned it. Several times. At the end, Kimi was putting serious ground on Hamilton, so again your "he didnt have a fast enough car to pass" is proven wrong.

Is this what your contacts in the team told you, or just guesses? They told you who was lighter and heavier and what the wing settings would be? Here I was thinking that such information was kept very very close to their chest but it turns out they consult with each other and bring in Tifosiron for the discussion too? Suuuure I beileve that!

Todt tell you that, too?

First of all, Ron Dennis said he thought the BMWs were light on fuel, which is why they qualified so high up. Second, the commentators even talked about this a few times making quips like "well I guess Ron was wrong about Heidfelds fuel load". Sure, Heidfeld was quick, but if you think that Nick's BMW was on par with Massas Ferrari in terms of speed, you're nuts. And it wouldn't have had to be any cakewalk if he didn't screw the pooch and get himself in behind Nick to begin with!

You're delusional! What happened was that Kimi in a sick car managed to beat his teammate, who you say is the faster driver, who was on pole, who had a very fast car. How can you place no blame at Massas feet for his flubs today? It's very clear you're the one speaking from personal prejudices. You even gloated when Felipe had pole, that you "knew it all along", etc. Then when it blows up in your face, the old "you are all biased, I'm not arguing with you guys anymore" take-your-ball-and-go-home card comes out - big surprise!

So now you are saying if Felipe didn't flub the start, he could have held off a faster car? You mean, like what Hamilton did? Massas car was clearly faster than Hamiltons. Alonso got so far in front that the race was essentially over when Felipe screwed up the start and couldn't pass Lewis nor let his faster teammate pass him.

Sorry, Massa proves again that he is a mid-pack driver. So much for all this BS about how he's the team favorite, he's a nice guy and the team will work harder, how he's matured, etc, etc. Today we saw the same Massa we've always seen - the one that screws up when the going gets tough, then gets all meek and settles in behind a slow car and just cruises to the finish line. He ought to be ashamed of himself.

 

Kimi is an EXCELLENT #1 driver. Alonso is an EXCELLENT #1 driver. Hamilton is an EXCELLENT #2 driver. Massa is a DECENT #2 driver.

But he sure is #2 in that team.

 

SRT - you're not still upset about this, are you? My wife was quite impressed that, before the end of the first lap, I was yelling at Ferrari to "fire both of them."

Now, I can tell myself that Kimi is only two points behind Alonso - given the car he had, not so bad a result.

 

You could say that Lewis timed his final laps slow-down to perfection, just being out of reach.....

One other thought, had this been last year & it it had been MS's engine that had the overheating problem, would he have kept it for the race (knowing it wasn't 100%) or would he have gone for an engine change ?
I suspect whe would have changed it and driven in his usual hard-charging manner...

 

Agreed on all and that some folks still stick to Massa is amusing. Even the Speed guys (remember "Massappeal"?) mentioned today we saw the Massa of the Sauber days. True dat.

BTW: At the rate Lewis is going, I'd say by 2008 he is an excellent #1 driver.

PS: I predicted Massa will sail off. I was expecting rain, but he manages to even do it on a dry track.

 

How embarrassing must it be to be outwitted by a rookie...

 

I knew Hamilton would be good, but not this good this quickly! Other than Hamilton, who would you rate as a better #2 driver than Massa?

 

I don't see how Massa is forgiveable after not one, but two self-created mistakes whilst trying to overtake a heavier rookie (fast rookie though I admit). Even Martin Brundle on itv was very critical of him.
iirc Massa was the only driver in the top ten to have lost places, and we are talking about 4 substantial positions here? Stop making excuses for him guys, he was rubbish today for a Ferrari driver.

 

yessir

 

One thing I'd say about Hamilton is that the car amplifies his inherent ability. I wonder how quick Kubica, Rosberg, or Heidfeld would be in that car. All three IMO are very good drivers. Remember it was very recently that there were numerous posts about Rosberg being the 'real deal'. Hamilton is in the arguably best car, and I personally think Alonso is overrated by some. He's good, but IMO does not have the inherent talent that Michael or Kimi have. How quickly we forget that Alonso was not-too-long-ago just another mid-pack driver.

Having said that, if you take the car out of the equation, Hamilton is still very good. Probably better than many #1 drivers in the top teams. I think that it's not really possible to make a direct comparison with others because he's only been in 2 races, and in one of the (if not the) fastest car. But I will say I would be very interested to see how Heidfeld, Rosberg, Kubica, Button and MAYBE Heiki would perform in that 2nd seat. I think Rosberg and Button especially may do very well, maybe as well or better than Hamilton has done.

Then again, Hamilton will only improve. One thing I learned about F1 is it's really bandwagon-ey. When a driver does well, he's the best thing since sliced bread. When he does not-as-well, he's not deserving of the drive. Webber and Rosberg were both hailed as super drivers, and now how often do you hear their names? Without a GOOD car, you're nothing in F1. Were he at Renault, Honda, Toyota or Red Bull, we wouldn't be hearing 1/10th of what we do about Hamilton, IMO of course.