About to take the plunge, but.... | FerrariChat

About to take the plunge, but....

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by 5800RPM, Apr 8, 2007.

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  1. 5800RPM

    5800RPM Formula Junior
    Owner

    Apr 21, 2006
    503
    Sarasota, Florida
    Full Name:
    Jason
    Hi gang,

    Ok, I've been a lover of the Ferrari brand since I could see and I've researched the brand intensely over the past 2 years as I am now in a place in life where owning one makes sense financially and for my own enjoyment.

    I've looked at a lot of cars (4 or 5 pretty seriously) and have come to the point of trying to hammer out a deal on one. Naturally, this being my first exotic, I want to make sure it is a memorable experience for all the right reasons and not all the wrong ones.

    I've developed a few questions about the one I've gotten serious about due to the Carfax report and I'd like some feedback from the pros to see if I'm missing anything or if I'm on track.

    1990 348ts 13K miles. Dealer representing the vehicle says it is mint with no stories, damage history, paint or chips.

    Carfax:

    05/23/1991 89 Texas
    Motor Vehicle Dept.
    Houston, TX
    Title #********** Title or registration issued
    First owner reported

    08/05/1993 3,922 Oregon
    Motor Vehicle Dept.
    Grants Pass, OR
    Title #********** Odometer reading reported for title
    or registration

    08/19/1993 Oregon
    Motor Vehicle Dept.
    Grants Pass, OR
    Title #********** Title issued or updated

    11/14/1996 4,756 Kansas
    Motor Vehicle Dept.
    Overland Park, KS
    Title #********** Title issued or updated

    06/14/2000 Nebraska
    Motor Vehicle Dept.
    Omaha, NE Title issued or updated
    Exempt from odometer reporting

    I've talked to some car people about my questions but would love some Ferrari people's input.

    What I see from the Carfax:

    1) The car "lived" most of it's life in the Central US region but is now located on the East coast of the US (as indicated by the dealer representing the car);

    2) The car appears to have gone unlicesed for a few periods of time (assuming a 2yr max licensing period - I'm Canadian and in Ontario where I live max licensing is 2yrs but I don't know what US regulations are with regards to max licensing period for a car or even if they change state to state?). If 2yrs is also the max in the US then it appears the car went unlicensed for a year between 1993-1996, another period of 2yrs between 1996-2000 and has sat, presumably, from 2002-present (5yrs);

    So given the above, the questions that come to my mind not having an understanding of US regulations:

    1) How do I ensure the current owner has clear and unencumbered title to the vehicle as there are no records of registration since 2000? I find it odd that a car that "lived" in Central US for most of it's time and where it's last registration record is, ended up on the US East coast, having been unlicensed since 2001/02. Can anyone think of any explanations (I've thought of a couple but don't want to taint anyone's opinion with my thoughts)?

    2) Plausible explanations for a car sitting unlicensed for 5yrs? Again, I've got my thoughts but I don't want to taint opinions by giving them.

    3) Having talked to some high end car folks I know well (Benz dealership owner who also owns a Ferrari himself & his service manager), they thought the Carfax showing the car apparently sitting since 2001/02 likely is not a good thing. They felt that it would mean a lot of work could be needed on the car beyond just a major serive, such as new battery, new tires, all new gaskets + seals, all new hoses/rubber, likely AC recharge or possible compressor replace, possible rust issues with car and more particularily breaking system etc... Are they right? Anything else they may have missed?

    Obviously a good PPI is in order as is a personal inspection, but I'd like to bounce around some of the above issues with all of you and get some other input to go with my thoughts.

    So what do you think Ferrari Brotherhood?

    If you need any other info to make informed recommendations, let me know and if I know the answer I'll provide it and if I don't have the info I'll ask the dealer representing the car to get the answers.

    TIA for your help :D
     
  2. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 26, 2001
    33,099
    E ' ' '/ F
    Full Name:
    Snike Fingersmith
    Actually, those look like ownership/title changes. Standard license renewals don't usually show up in Carfax. In general, states in the US require annual license renewals, but each state handles it differently.
     
  3. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
    2,346
    Cardiff. UK
    Full Name:
    Nick.
    whats the service history like ?
    that should show mileage between each service and intervals etc
     
  4. 5800RPM

    5800RPM Formula Junior
    Owner

    Apr 21, 2006
    503
    Sarasota, Florida
    Full Name:
    Jason
    Ok, that is nice to know. Thanks for that. So it could still be 1 owner who just moved to a different state and not necessarily a new owner of the vehicle?

    I'm dealing with an intermediary (dealer representing the car) so I'm at a bit of a disadvantage having not spoken to the actual owner of the vehicle.

    It is in the process of being assembled and forwarded to me. I'll post more once I've got the info. Hopefully it all checks out.

    Owner will perform a major to complete the sale, so that's all well and good, but I would like to see that the car has been cared for previously and not neglected.
     
  5. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,594
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    California lets you just pay a 'planned non-operation' (PNO) fee if you don't plan to drive the car, so it's possible/probable that other states don't require plates if you're storing the car. With 13K miles, the car did sit around a lot. Annual registration is the rule in the States, as far as I know. Dealer inventory has its own rules - maybe this car just got dealer plates when it was driven (one theory, anyway...)

    Just get a PPI with a compression test and plan on a major service (US$5K-$6K). If there's no accident damage discernible, no stress cracks, no corrosion, etc., it's probably OK. It will probably need new tires and fuel lines, in addition the major service items. And it's gonna leak oil (shock!)

    Couple of personal observations/thoughts:

    1. I lived in the central U.S. (Chicago/Cleveland), and exotic cars there have to be locked away for 4-5 months a year due to corrosive road salt. The idea that the car was stored isn't implausible. Make sure your PPI checks for corrosion everywhere, though - they don't call it the Rust Belt for nothing.

    2. Any car with 13K miles has stone chips OR paint. The owner is being 'optimistic' in his description. These cars are low and all you have to do is tailgate an SUV for a couple of miles... Sometimes you can tell by the windscreen -- if the (scary expensive) glass is sandblasted but the nose paint is pristine, well...

    3. A '90 348ts could be a nice car, but it is not generally considered the best year for 348s, and 348s have quality/design idiosyncrasies (read up in the 345/355 thread) that turn some people off. Make sure this is the model/year you want based on reasons other than price. Some guys love them and drive them hard with no big issues, so there's no 'right' answer here. If a friend asked me what his first Ferrari ought to be, though, the early 348s wouldn't be my first choice.

    4. Any receipts? Those can tell you how often it was used and whether it was serviced by someone reputable or had the minimum done at the corner service station.

    Finally, owning a Ferrari never "makes sense financially", but it doesn't have to. They really look, sound and drive like nothing else.
     
  6. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,594
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Ugh. I'd rather see you buy it a bit lower and have a quality, thorough major performed by someone you choose.

    You can then (1) make sure it's not done on the cheap and (2) form a relationship with your Ferrari tech, because you'll have a lot of questions and he'll get to know your car.
     
  7. testarob

    testarob F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2006
    2,504
    Debary, Florida
    Full Name:
    Rob
    +1
     
  8. 5800RPM

    5800RPM Formula Junior
    Owner

    Apr 21, 2006
    503
    Sarasota, Florida
    Full Name:
    Jason
    Thanks for that advice. Was tossing that around in my head as well.

    Keep it coming guys. I love all the advice. My head is swimming right now with info overload so getting good advice and having things pointed out that I may have missed is what this thread is all about.

    Thanks again to all.
     
  9. spike308

    spike308 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 8, 2003
    4,712
    Austin TX!
    Full Name:
    Mike Z
    Remember that CarFax's can be deceptive. Just because they are "clean", does not mean something has not happened. Check Ebay, there are trashed Ferraris that claim clean carfax.
    Someone posted above, you want receipts. You can call the shops and verify that the work has been done (any idiot can make up a receipt on the computer!).
    Also, unless a dealer or reputable indy shop is going to do the major, I'd get them to lower the price and get the work done yourself (another fine suggestion from above).
     

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