Malaysian GP***Spoilers***

Mike, you're right. the circumstances, rule changes, hampered Ferrari in 2005, and yes, had Kimi been given a half decent reliable car, FA would without a doubt lost out to the faster Kimi that year. shoot, 2005, the rules were practically set for Renault to win--the regs that were made specifically to end Ferrari's dominance. in 2006, it was inconsistent reliability early on for the Ferrari's that cost MS another title...even then, it took 'bad luck' on the red car to hand the title to FA. in all, looking at the context, circumstances helped out FA quite a bit during both his WDC. yes, he's one of the top drivers out there right now, but he's not 'god' as he's now been made out as--especially around certain circles, certain 'realms'. and he is certainly not the absolute fastest. heck, i see Lewis Hamilton taking it to him this year...leaving politics aside, FA will have his hands full with his teammate. nevertheless, Ferrari will regroup, and Kimi will get back out and there and show how fast he really is... as for Massa...err...i don't have the energy for him anymore... just lame...

 

Come on! Kimi has won only 10 races and you are saying that he can be a WDC and that he deserves somthing more than Massa?

????

 

he deserves 'something more' because he's earned it..you have to look at the wins in context...Kimi should've been WDC in 05, Mclaren just couldn't build a reliable car. Kimi arguably should've been champ in 03, lost out at the end. and even in crappy cars, Kimi still drives all out.. compare that to the 'other' current ferrari driver...awful performance in a top car...but very consistent with his body of work...his career...

 

Did you happen to see the GP2 season last year... ROOIKIE CHAMPION!!! Or any other series he raced. He ALWAYS dominates ALWAYS. He's already out racing the best in the world. History has a way of repeating itself
Rosbergs place on the podium his first 2 F1 races as a rookie?? No he couldnt have since it hasn't been done since 1964.

You don't have to go buy my expert opinion just ask former F1 Champ Damon Hill or any of the other pro's who are astonished by his performance. If you don't see it you are blind.

 

I don't think I've ever seen so many people around here so happy to see Ferrari lose a race.

 

i'm not happy...hugely dissappointed that they didn't podium both cars...

but good for Hamilton. plus it gives the bandwagoneers something to ride this year...next year, it will be someone else...

 

SATO!

 

Shoulda/coulda/woulda's don't mean SQUAT.

LOTS of drivers over the years 'shoulda/coulda/woulda' won something, but they didn't. Joe Leonard shoulda won Indy in 68, Rick Mears in 82, Senna shoulda won Monaco in 84, Prost shoulda been WDC in 84, but none of them did.

That's racing, it's a TEAM sport.

 

One thing is for sure:

Massa has the next two races to prove to me he is no better than Fisichella.
If he doesn't, then he is mentally screwed for the rest of the season.
I really thought Massa was better than this...

 

i was pointing out the context of his 'lack of success'... saying that just because Kimi only has x amount of wins does not mean he's not the fastest driver out there... that even in crappy cars, he's still a madman, in a fast reliable car, unstoppable. give him a reliable and fast car throughout this year and he will be WDC...

 

seriously, you really thought Massa was better than this. Really? now THAT is funny. Where have you been these past 5 years???

 

that's exactly what irks me... Ferrai may lose the WCC if there's not consistent top driving by BOTH drivers. lets not fool ourselves, Massa's lackluster performances in several races last year certainly helped in giving both titles to Renault. but hey, i and several others here may be proven completely wrong in the end. Kimi will drive like crap for the rest of the season, so will FA, so will Hamilton, and Massa will all of a sudden rise to Shumacher'esque level and blow everyone away, and win WDC. it could happen.

 

Montoya had a reliable car in 05. Was it a Renault?

 

It's easy to have a reliable car when you run it at 4/10th's.

Now Montoya is driving The Car of Tomorrow and Kimi is in a Ferrari.

 

Julio, even when you 'a la carte' your arguments, they hold no water. but, it's nice to see you (and a few others) take part in these discussions by jabbing here and there--no real contribution, but a niggle here and there when you see fit. by the way, isn't there a FA, Renault, McLaren chat you'd be more at home at? actually, 'a la carte' posting is kinda lame, but keeps the board greased nevertheless. i know you are a staunch supporter of FA, but c'mon, at least TRY to see it from another perspective other than through your biases.

 

And he will once again finish the WDC behind FA.

I can't wait to hear the "reliability/awesome good luck/Kimi's bad luck/team favoritism" arguments that will inevitably pop up like stale mushrooms.

 

you're so ingrained in your own madness. it's sad. you're hopeless. bring nothing to a discussion. as i said... 'a la carte'... just one of many out there..

 

Scuderia, if you think my arguments hold no water, please address them. I am fully open to correction and do not consider myself an expert at all.

I am at home in this Chat because I am a Ferrari fan first and foremost, and an Alonso fan second. In fact, my interest in F1 is entirely due to our local wonder, and to the fact that I was never able to feel the least bit of sympathy (but plenty of respect) for MS.

That being said, my bias is reactive. It is reactive to the fact that FA receives very little consideration and respect on this board, given his clear and impressive acheivements. There is no need for me to write them again.

Sure, he had a good car. Sure, the opposition had problems. But that's the usual way that WDC's are won! Ask MS!

And not a word about FA's PERFECT coolness under pressure, the succesful holding of MS on repeated occasions, the impeccable racecraft and engine management, the masterful starts where positions are nearly always won, the development contributions, the smart move to Mac, etc...

And then he is a prick. Sure, I agree. A bigger prick than J. Villeneuve? or JPM? F1 is full of them.

I am more than willing to try other perspectives, and look forward to your replies helping me to do that. What about a new perspective on FA?

Cheers,

Julio

 

We're talking about a sport here. Please chill out.

As for the "a la carte" criticism, a significant majority of posts on this board fit in that category. Give me a break.

I sincerely look forward to your informative and interesting posts (unlike this one).


Julio

 

Lets face it Massa made a mess of his good start, if it was Michael he would have moved all the way across and shut Alonso's door. But he did not and moved back out and lost two places for it.

As for Kimi being held up by Massa dream on, Kimi admitted he was not as fast as Massa at that time, in fact he said he was not in a position to challenge Hamilton throughout the race. He stated that Massa had the extra straight line speed he did not have.

Quote
KR: Yeah, in the end when he made a mistake but unfortunately I didn’t have enough speed in a straight line to try to challenge either of them when I got behind Lewis. I got close to him but I didn’t have as much speed as Felipe so he could always challenge him but I was not able to do that. I always tried to get close to them because I knew that they would have a fight and I thought that maybe I could get passed one of them, and in the end it worked out but unfortunately I didn’t get past Lewis.

Massa tried made a mistake sad for him, Kimi did not have the speed simple.

Best driver out there today was Hamilton by far.

 

This thread has turned into a real "cat-fight" -hissssss.......

Carol

 

Absolutely I am saying that. It's not just about the number of wins. It's about what I've seen him do on track. That includes mopping the floor with his teammates, some of which were really good. That includes making amazing passes, squeezing amazing speed from a car, etc. The sort of things we would see Michael do and say "wow!".

Comparatively, what has Massa done? Could you seriously suggest he has shown more talent than Kimi? I don't know how anyone could suggest that, and I can't imagine it could be an unbiased opinion after looking at their respective (Kimi and Felipe) results.

 

Plenty of drivers have been dominant in other series and not done so well in F1. Being dominant in GP2 does not mean he is instantly the next major star in F1.

As for Damon Hill's opinion - it's ALL opinion, I don't really consider any one person's opinion to be right and the rest wrong.

Like I said, Hamilton is in the fastest car and has 100% of the team support. of course he is shining brightly. I am not saying he's NOT a superstar, I'm saying a bunch of you guys are jumping onto his bandwagon REAL quick and two 2nd place results in 2 races is a little premature to call the guy the next MS, or even the next FA.

 

+1

I have once compared the two careers of Kimi and Massa and of course Massa's statistics are very unimpressive. Some gave me flak over this because Massa sat most of his time in a Sauber (and whose fault is that?) whereas Kimi sat in a McLaren. Well, so I figured lets' compare them when they both sat in a Sauber (Kimi 2001, Massa 2002) for the first time:

Kimi, who's F1 superlicense was on probation because he was so young, untested and raw a talent outscored Massa in his first year by more than twice the points. And that in a car that rarely ever got any points. He also outdid him in average (and absolute) grid positions and average (and absolute) finishing positions.

But to see a more up to date comparison, just take a look at the current points standing: 16 to 7. Nuff said.