Speeding ticket...............

Did I sign onto Volvo chat by mistake?
OMFG - Speed is intrinsically evil, thank god the goverment is here to protect us.

 

DM,

Regarding the court I mentioned. About a year ago, there was a case in the midwest (can't remember, exactly where) where a motorcycle rider was cited for reckless speeding. He was triple digits. Again, can't remember all the circumstances (empty road, limited access, etc.), but the judge (bench trial) threw out the reckless using the argument that speed in iteslf was not reckless. I'll try to find it for you.

Regarding the lowest common denominator. Just because the posted speed limit is 55mph doesn't mean that people actually obey it. It's their understanding of their limitations and good common sense that keeps them from plowing into pedestrians or going 100mph. Most people seem to pretty much ignore the posted limits on a regular basis by 5-15mph. THEY decide what's safe in the situation. Not some traffic engineer sitting in a cubicle thinking up speed limits rules and regulations and applying a "formula" to determine the posted limit. So, the real problem isn't the posted limit. It's the fact that we give people a dangerous weapon without the proper training to handle it. Drivers tests are a joke, and they simply don't prepare you for handling anything more than parking lot speed driving.

I suppose in some ways this is a bit of a "if a tree falls in the forest" argument. If there's noone around, what's the problem? Yes, going to the track is safer. For some, that's not practicable. Are you telling me that everytime you feel the urge for a little "right foot therapy" you drive to the track? Everyone is so quick to say that. Don't get me wrong, of course people should reserve the truly fast driving for an environment where you can reduce risks. But, say you're out on I95 alone. It's an 8-lane road south of Philly. Assume it's at at time when there's no other traffic. What's to prevent you from winding it up other than your fear of the law and your own common sense? Maybe that's a bad example as whenever I'm driving on I95, it seems that traffic is moving along about 80-85mph, anyway. Again, I'm not advocating driving 100mph in traffic, weaving in an out, or generally driving like a jerk. But, drivers must judge the risks for themselves, and I agree that if you're going to be driving at a high rate of speed, the other guy is something you have to watch out for. That's obvious. So, if you're going to kick it up to those speeds find a place or time where they aren't around. I suspect rush hour traffic doesn't work too well for that.

I do not have statistics from the Autobahn. I'm certain that crashes do occur, though, and when they do, they're probably pretty bad. Yes, that is a downside of speed, but they've had the Autobahn in continuous operation since the 1930's, so they've learned to accept the risk and live with it. We haven't. And, as Germany's density has grown, the Autobahn's unrestricted portions have steadily shrunk away. Congestion probably has played a big role in that. It's a crowded world. I also know that penalties for exceeding the limit are steep, and enforcement is electronic as well as by patrol units. Loss of license is also a possibility. So, much of their system is the same, other than the fact that they train drivers and then trust them to be responsible.

While I've been driving for 20+ years, I've NEVER seen anyone pulled over the going under the speed limit. Frankly, I'd like the police to be doing more of that. Keep the slower traffic right. The left lane is the passing lane and should never be occupied unless. That's the law where I am, but a neighboring state doesn't have the equivalent. So, oftentimes you find our neighbors cruising blindly along in the left lane while everyone is stacked up behind them. This causes more road rage than anything I can think of. However, it practically takes an act of Congress to get them to move over. This may be a bit of a tangent, but the point is that enforcement doesn't work.

Having the less popular point of view is difficult. It's kind of like being a "Merchant of Death". If you don't know that reference, please watch Thank You For Smoking. Pretty funny movie, actually (and it's where I got the cholesterol line). It's the same logic for gun control. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. While I shouldn't put words in your mouth, by your logic, I'm pretty sure that you'd be happy if we did away with guns altogether. After all, they're dangerous and can be used to commit crimes. I feel that cars are similar. They certainly have the potential to do a lot of harm. Thus, they must be treated with respect. There's no way that a pedestrian will survive a 100mph impact. But, what are they doing in the middle of I95?

And, yes, there are steep penalties for excessive speeding. I understand that. And, if I choose to drive over the speed limit, I have to accept that I might be nabbed and have to suffer the consequences. Actually, it's interesting to note that I've never seen in any brochure produced by the license-issuing authority the fact that you could be sentenced to jail time for excessive speed. That's a penalty the Courts impose. So, who, exactly, conveys this message? I mean, people go to jail for murder, rape and fraud. But speeding? If I didn't know it to be the case, I'd still be in utter amazement.

Yes. Putting others in some danger IS ok. That's a fact, not an opinion. It's not that you knowingly do it, but it's rather that driving a car is a potentially dangerous act, you know that fact, and others on the road have accepted a certain amount of risk just to be on the road with you and to function in society. That's how the law looks at this. When there are moving parts, things can happen. The only way to solve it is to stop the parts from moving, which it sounds like you're happy to do. Of course, commerce would come to screeching halt, and the simplest of tasks would now be made impossible. Accidents do happen that are beyond your control and may result in injury to 3rd parties that had nothing to do with it. You may not be convicted of a criminal or civil offense. In this case, the 3rd party accepted the risk. But, you're right. If you're traveling at a high rate of speed, have an accident and kill someone, you will likely be charged with vehicular manslaughter. You'll also likely be sued for wrongful death. So, this is something everyone who drives ... not just speeds ... should be considering every single time they open the door and get in their car. But, realistically, how many of us actually do this? It's kind of like, "but who reads the fine print".

Yes, we're all entitled to our opinions. And, I don't drive recklessly. Of course, that's in my opinion. So, you might disagree, apparently, but you'd have to spend time in my car as a passenger to have an informed opinion on it. And, don't worry, I'm not interested in driving in PA if I have to sit behind a line of cars driving 5mph BELOW the limit. Just kidding, of course, but the reality is that the majority of the world sees the speed limits for what they are and choose to ignore them to the tune of 5-15mph every day. They decide for themselves what's reasonable at the moment. It's really not that big of a stretch with modern high performance cars to see 25mph and beyond as very attainable and reasonably safe. After all, speed limits have pretty much been stuck in time.

Now, maybe since the Dino is a bit older (lower hp, older brakes, smaller tires, older suspension, etc.) driving 55mph gives the equivalent feeling of driving 80mph in a modern car. Even getting to 100mph in the Dino is probably a very concious effort. I never cared for the brakes on my Boxer, and whenever I chose to ring it out a bit, I always left plenty of extra stopping distance because I just didn't have that much confidence in them. But, in today's modern performance cars, one feels much more confident and hitting 100mph in a high performance car is an easy thing to do. Anti lock brakes have been a major advancement. And, combined with an attentive driver trained in threshold braking, well, one has a strong ability to avoid disasters. However, you probably know all this, and we'll just have to agree that you don't like it when people drive fast.

CW

 

DM,

I tried to find the link to the case I was referring to. I believe it was in Minnesota. There are a couple of threads here, but I can't find the one I wanted. I may do another search, but I wanted to try while it was fresh in my mind. However, I distinctly remember the disposition of the reckless driving charge and the judge's opinion.

Good one, Fred2! Volvo chat! Lol!

Stew, you're right that they don't ticket overeating or McDonald's for serving unhealthy food (Supersize Me was also entertaining). But, if you follow the logic, it may happen one day. It's duplicitous to say that one danger killing more people isn't as bad as a danger that kills fewer. Anyway, we do have laws for operating motor vehicles, but they're often ignored or broken regularly. There are consequences. I certainly understand, as should every driver, that higher speed has higher risk and the potential for more damage and injury or death. That's why driving at a higher speed requires more skill, attention and responsibility.

Also, all, don't get me wrong. I'm not endorsing street racing. Drag racing at 140mph is hugely risky, an I suspect that the judge in the OP's case will feel the same way. Let's just not start painting yellow stars or scarlet letters on everyone for driving fast. I mean, if Michael Schumacher were driving 100mph on the interstate (or Autobahn), would you declare him unsafe? There may be instances where it would be unsafe and reckless even if it is MS driving. I'm not comparing myself to MS, but example serves to underscore the point. Different drivers, different cars, different conditions, and different roads all add up to the fact that a one-size -fits-all approach doesn't really do the job.

CW

 

FACT: speed limits are supposed to be set in the 80th percentile, ie the speed that 80% of normal people drive. on I-95 where i live the 80th percentile is 80mph, the posted limit is 65 mph

FACT: In the county where I live right up the street there is a windy twisty road thru the forest with only a dotted yellow line in the middle, and no white lines on the shoulders elevation changes, sharp turns and as a bonus it even has blind driveway entrances to you guessed it peoples houses... posted speed limit 55mph. with this in mind read the next paragraph

FACT: on my commute to work I take I-895 thru the harbor tunnel, this is a double divided highway, with no sharp turns, no redlights, a 2 or 3 foot high jersey wall separating the north and southbond lanes, limited on and off ramps, in other words its a roadway designed for very high rates of speed posted speed limit 50mph... yep thats 5mph slower than the above mentioned road.

FACT: the transportion authority lobbied to have the limit set to 50mph and guess what they do on 895 they run speed traps more aggressivly than on any other roadway I have seen. what makes this stretch of road get a 50mph limit when its a highway, and i can blast around a blind turn on someones driveway at 55mph. in case you havent figured it out yet ... here it comes speed limits are not set for traffic flow, they are set for revenue flow. deliberatly lower than the speed that most people feel comfortable driving.

its been brought up but I may as well say it that all you have to do to get a licence in Maryland is pass that MVA parking test on the barbie doll course behind the MVA In my opionion a drivers licence should be like a pilots licence you know where you actually learn from a certified instructor for enough hours to be profiscient then you have to have a check ride from an objective 3rd party to get your endorsement.

how does our system work, well your parents or guardian take you around for your 40 hours of permit time and teach you everything they know which normally includes millions of bad habbits, as an example a friend of mines mother told them to drive in the fast lane to avoid the on and off ramp traffic. they honestly didnt know any different...... then its on the the parking test at the MVA and bam your licenced.

as a side note my instructor during my 6 hours of on road training slept for 2 of the 6 hours, and all hours were performed in ideal sunny conditions. I maybe had 30 minutes of highway time in my 6 hours... now you tell me what in this world can you learn to be good at in 6 hours. in car instruction should be 30 hours minimum and you should have to drive in different conditions, ie wet, dry, night, highway etc... but i digress.. the point is the speed limits we have are bunk noone is advocating blasting thru neighborhoods at 60mph I strictly adhere to limits in residential areas, and shopping distritcs, and in the city. but when i hit a road like I-95 that is engineered for speeds well in excess of 100mph and get snagged going 80 mph something just dosent sit well with me.

oh one more
FACT: 80% of all motorvehicle accidents not related to substance abuse are from unsafe lane changing. and fyi accidents base on driver distraction follow that one up. the 3 before that include alchohol, prescription drugs, and health failure causing loss of control. speeding as a direct cause of accidents is somewhere around 3% and most of those are single vehichle accidents where an suv takes a corner to fast or something. ive put alot of research into speed and the limits we have and it dosent paint a pretty picture. its mostly lies and misinformation.

please forgive my slightly sarcastic tone but nothing gets me hotter under the collar than the bs speed limts we have.

 

Please provide the source of this interesting tidbit. I don't disagree but the information is not a 'fact' without without creditable authority behind it.

 

heres some light reading
http://sense.bc.ca/research.htm

http://www.ite.org/
---=---------------

http://www.chart.state.md.us/MapNet/MapDOTNET.aspx?Browser=IE6&ViewName=BACO&Cmd=ZoomToView&tab=Traffic&DoPanTo=False&Direction=&PanFactor=&DoZoomScaleFactor=&x=&y=&Encoder=&timestamp=25692&x1=347511&x2=458427&y2=207368&y1=123548
and this is a fun link they only record publicly viewable speeds up to 65mph and then it says speeds over 65mph look at these maps during the late evening sometime every roadway says over 65mph at all times basically proving the entire point that most people hussle when conditions permit and do so in a safe manner

honestly what I would like to see is changing lanes or turning without a signal being enforced en mass, mandatory 250 dollar fine for not signaling your intentions. I was almost hit 2 times yesterday by two drivers who did not signal. both senarios happend below the posted limit there was an open spot in the next lane i signaled waited till it flashed twice then started my lane change then in both cases some yahoo starting cutting over on me with no signal just lurched over into the space i was trying to occupy. obviously had either A they looked around and seen my signal, or B signaled themselves to alert me to their intention there would have been no problem. as it is I am an alert and conciencous driver so I always plan for the moron in the next lane to try something that dumb so calmly I merged back to my previous position.

I drive over 100 miles per on my commute, and have been doing so for over 7 years and in that time 98% of all near misses were not related to speed. the ones that were, were from the crazy 130mph nutters, that weave between the lanes of traffic, which noone is recomending here. i can count on 1 hand though the amount of times I even encountered one of those types of speeders. all the rest of near misses were from many things ill list a few.

-tons of objects in road dropped by trucks with unsafe loads everthing from wooden palets,granite countertops to gravel
-too many to list of that distracted non turn signal using driver just either A. trying to take the same spot I signaled for or B. trying just to merge over onto me not noticiing me there
-many cases of diabled cars in travel lanes that did not even bother to get onto the shoulder
-one case of an older gentleman reversing up the fast lane just over the crest of a hill
-too many to list of morons pulling out into traffic, running red lights, or automerging at the end of onramps where traffic is not clear at very low rates of speed
-several cases of people pulling off of the shoulder and into highway traffic at around very low rates of speed
-3 times wheels or tires blew off or flew off of semi trucks and came hurtling at me
-several cases of people brake checking me
-too many to list of sudden abrupt traffic stops where the whole highway goes from 70mph down to 5mph with no warning
-too many to list of some yahoo in the fast lane cutting accross 3 or more lanes of traffic to catch that exit they almost drove past
-near misses with many forms of wildlife
-1 near miss of a car that was upside down in my lane just over the crest of a hill at night

too many oddities to list, i wont even go into the things ive seen people doing while driving and not paying attention to driving.

I have also witnessed tons of accidents, including fatal ones. saw a guy pop a u turn at a green light and get broadsided by an suv 2 fatalities seen things I will never forget. the guy that killed them was going the speed limit and going thru his green light. had the suv that killed the u turning guy been going slower yes they could have lived in the car but he was going the speed limit folks still had to die thats why its called an accident, oh and also the cop told me the driver of the car that pulled out in front of the suv had alchohol on his breath...... thats one example I wont bore you with more but I have seen it all at this point.

oh yea and did i mention not one accident on my part not even one accident that wasent my fault. Its called knowing how to drive and yes I do speed when conditions permit I keep up with traffic most of the time. I challenge anyone to recount their last close calls and tell me that more were related to speeding than to other incedental problems or stupidity encountered on the road.

i should point out also on that one page that 2/3 accidents related to speeding happen below the posted limit when people drive too fast for conditions.

 

right off of ite's site
When vehicular crash causes are considered in combination with each other, we find that 93% of the crashes involve diver error, 34% involve roadway features, and 12% involve vehicle malfunctions/conditions. Drivers are contributing factors in 93% of crashes? Vehicles are quite well designed and unlikely to fail in operation. Roadways are not perfect, but most are generally design-standard compliant or safe in design. Drivers make mistakes in making dozens of decisions every few blocks. Mistakes include: imprudent driving, illegal maneuvers, poor judgment and loss of control.

also ill add that speed does cause worse damage when you wreck but even the speeders normally made a mistake that cause the accident, ie had the speeder not made a mistake he would not have crashed. speed not withstanding

 

I see you live in the Philly area. I travel I-95 North from the Betsy Ross to Street Road every morning at approx 6:45am. Left lane traffic will move along at 85 mph as long as there are no cops around, even though the revenue limit is 55 mph.

Hitting 100 mph every now and then isn't hard to do if you're passing one of those jerks who likes to speed up only when being passed. It doesn't happen often, but I've seen 100 on the (digital) speedometer a few times. 85-90 is no further away than a touch on the gas pedal while passing. The speed differential is no more than 10-15 mph.

I know there's no winning this argument. We all know that speed limits are ludicrously low. The NMA has always argued that speed limits should be set at the 85th to 90th percentile speed, and most are currently set way below that.

NMA links:

http://www.motorists.org/issues/speed/index.html


As someone else posted, there are roads in NJ that are two-lanes, no divider, with a speed limit of 50 mph sitting next to four-lane divided limited-access highways with a 45 mph speed limit. They did this up by Exit 8 on the NJ Turnpike.
They built a new road (133, I believe), and there was an article in the paper six months later wondering why traffic volume was so low. Well, how about because the revenue collectors were always hiding in the bushes waiting to nab motorists doing a normal 65-70 mph on a road they managed to post at 45 mph? Nobody used that damn road if they could avoid it or knew better.

If you didn't have a speedometer in your car, how fast would you go? Research has shown that most people will invariably travel at a safe speed no matter what the speed limit. We know it's not about safety, it's about money.

Obviously if the government WANTED us to drive slower they would just have software-based speed governers on every car. If it wasn't about money, cops would drive down the middle lane of a highway at the posted speed limit with their lights on just daring anybody to pass them.

As an aside, Ukraine recently disbanded its traffic cops (taking too many bribes and stopping people just to shake them down) and guess what? Nothing changed. Everyone still drives the same, they just don't pay the extra road tax.

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/07/916df47e-0b0e-4845-a18f-24c8d4056b64.html

The system is exactly the same here in the states, except that the money moves farther up the food chain.

The NHTSA is a joke. How can you expect an organisation paid for by Insurance companies to do anything that would reduce revenue? It's like putting the wolves in charge of the sheep.

 

right of off nhtsa
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/TSFAnn/TSF2004.pdf

notice that they lumped too fast for conditions and excess of posted speed limit together if you take those apart its the too fast for conditions thats the big problem not the speed. also if you dig thru the numbers to find large portions of people driving with no licences, or under the influence of alchohol big numbers too. speeding is not the issue that causes the most deaths.






Failure to keep in proper lane or running off road . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13,954 24.0
Driving too fast for conditions or in excess of posted speed limit or racing. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11,818 20.3
Under the influence of alcohol, drugs, or medication . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7,072 12.2
Failure to yield right of way . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4,611 7.9
Operating vehicle in erratic, reckless, careless, or negligent manner . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,905 6.7
Inattentive (talking, eating, etc.) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,671 6.3
Swerving or avoiding due to wind, slippery surface, vehicle, object, nonmotorist in roadway, etc.. . 2,666 4.6
Failure to obey traffic signs, signals, or officer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,607 4.5
Overcorrecting/oversteering . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,466 4.2
Vision obscured (rain, snow, glare, lights, building, trees, etc.) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,679 2.9
Drowsy, asleep, fatigued, ill, or blackout . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,653 2.8
Making improper turn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,537 2.6
Driving wrong way on one-way trafficway or on wrong side of road . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 936 1.6
Other factors . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9,420 16.2
None reported . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20,216 34.8
Unknown . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 780 1.3
Total Drivers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58,080 100.0


and as you can see anyhow out of over 58,000 deaths, even lumped together speed is only related to over 11,000 of all accidents or around 20% of accidents are even related to speed. those are hard facts. seems to me that enforcemnt should be stricter on other areas than speed, to limit the other 80% of fatalities. but I have never seen a cop give a tkt for failure to signal..

 

here is the FAQ off of www.motorists.org

Q. How should speed limits be set?
A. Traffic engineers maintain that speed limits should be established according to the 85th percentile of free flowing traffic. This means the limit should be set at a level at or under which 85 percent of people are driving. Numerous studies have shown that the 85th percentile is the safest possible level at which to set a speed limit.


Q. What are "realistic" speed laws?
A. According to a pamphlet produced by the Washington State Department of Transportation relating to speed limits, "realistic" speed limits should invite public compliance by conforming to the behavior of the most drivers. This would allow the police to easily separate the serious violators from the reasonable majority.

Q. Isn’t slower always safer?
A. No, federal and state studies have consistently shown that the drivers most likely to get into accidents in traffic are those traveling significantly below the average speed. According to an Institute of Transportation Engineers Study, those driving 10 mph slower than the prevailing speed are six times as likely to be involved in an accident. That means that if the average speed on an interstate is 70 mph, the person traveling at 60 mph is far more likely to be involved in an accident than someone going 70 or even 80 mph.

Q. Wouldn’t everyone drive faster if the speed limit was raised?
A. No, the majority of drivers will not go faster than what they feel is comfortable and safe regardless of the speed limit. For example, an 18-month study following an increase in the speed limit along the New York Thruway from 55 to 65 mph, determined that the average speed of traffic, 68 mph, remained the same. Even a national study conducted by Federal Highway Administration also concluded that raising or lowering the speed limit had practically no effect on actual travel speeds.


Q. Don’t higher speed limits cause more accidents and traffic fatalities?
A. No, if a speed limit is raised to actually reflect real travel speeds, the new higher limit will make the roads safer. When the majority of traffic is traveling at the same speed, traffic flow improves, and there are fewer accidents. Speed alone is rarely the cause of accidents. Differences in speed are the main problem. Reasonable speed limits help traffic to flow at a safer, more uniform pace.

Q. Aren’t most traffic accidents caused by speeding?
A. No, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) claims that 30 percent of all fatal accidents are "speed related," but even this is misleading. This means that in less than a third of the cases, one of the drivers involved in the accident was "assumed" to be exceeding the posted limit. It does not mean that speeding caused the accident. Research conducted by the Florida Department of Transportation showed that the percentage of accidents actually caused by speeding is very low, 2.2 percent.

Q. Aren’t our roads more dangerous than ever before?
A. No, our nation’s fatality rate (deaths per 100 million vehicle miles traveled) is the lowest it has ever been. The total number of fatalities has also stayed relatively stable for several years. They do occasionally increase, but given that our population and the distance the average person drives are also increasing, this is not surprising, nor is it cause for alarm.

Q. If nobody follows the speed limit, why does it matter that they are underposted?
A. According to a speed-limit brochure published in conjunction with the Michigan State Patrol, inappropriately established speed limits cause drivers to take all traffic signals less seriously. The brochure also points out that unrealistic speed limits create two groups of drivers. Those that try to obey the limit and those that drive at a speed they feel is safe and reasonable. This causes dangerous differences in speed.


Q. Don’t lower speed limits save gas?
A. No, research has shown that the 55-mph National Maximum Speed Limit, which was enacted specifically to save gas, had practically no impact on fuel consumption. This is partly because people do not obey artificially lower speed limits. It is also because the differences in travel speeds that result from unreasonable limits waste gas. Most fuel is used to accelerate to a given speed. Speed limits based on actual travel speeds promote better traffic flow, which reduces the amount of braking and accelerating on our roads. This has a positive effect on fuel consumption.

 

The National Motorist Association
"We oppose ticket cameras, unfair driving taxes, kangaroo traffic courts, and speed traps".
-----------------

The President of this Quack orginazation is James J. Baxter—President
Here is his own quote from their stupid website.

"...I would like to claim to be the valedictorian of my high school class, that I attended Harvard for my undergraduate studies and did my graduate work at Oxford. That would be slight fabrication. Somewhat closer to the truth would be my D-plus high school average where I specialized in wood shop."
-------------------
These guys have absolutely no credibility. If you want to make a credible argument, use actual, realistic, credible facts.


Rule #1. Speed Kills

Rule #2. Race on the track

Rule #3. See rules 1 & 2

 

Motorola radio system is much faster than 200mph....

 

the questionablity of the motorists.org site is valid, but also notice the ite site, and the nhta site info, both of those are much more reputable, and i dont want to take credit for the motorists site as i didnt mention it first. but they do have some valid info on there, even if the guy running it is a bit of an underachiever.

 

Speed doesn't kill, or if it does, it must be that people die at speeds over 125 mph, because I know I've gone that fast and I'm still here to talk about it.
Oh wait, I've gone faster than that in a plane, and I'm still here. Hmm, must be really high speeds that kill...I thought you were giving us a credible fact?

No one's talking about racing on the street, we're talking about breaking the revenue limits.

 

Percentage wise there are less accidents on the autobahn then there are in the US.

 

Actually, speed is not a factor. It's differences in speed and direction of movement that kill.

 

indeed, never knew of anyone who died because of speed, it always had something to do with the way they stopped.

 

Thats right ash..........its not the speed that kills ya, its the sudden stop at the end!

 

This is never a popular sentiment in these threads, but why not take responsibility for your actions?

 

Because it costs money. We know the laws are there to make money, so why not try to avoid giving it to them?

If you mean morally, then why feel bad about disobeying an unjust law? Everybody goes over the speed limit, because they know it's a joke. Do you feel bad about it all the time or just when you're caught?

 

Did it ever cross your mind that you are guilty, and you deserve what you get?

 

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

ahahhahahaaha, Volvo Chat! I wonder if it exists.

Imagine some of the threads

"How to drive slowly and piss everyone off"
"The advantages of constantly deploying your high beams"
"Where can I find some less exciting seats?"

 

Just because some jurisdictions abuse speed laws doesn't mean they aren't valid. This unjust law bilge is crap used by people like you who are loath to take responsibility foryour actions.

 

Yes it happened here in Montana. No posted speed limit. What ended it you ask? I would say about 90% of the posters on this thread or people that think like them ended a very good thing. You people don't have a clue how "prudent" speed works.