How the window crank works...or doesn't

78-308 GTS. I went after my non-working windows today. I have read several good threads on how to do this. Since the cables had small broken wires, they were balling up and jamming in the pulleys. I had to cut them. Because of this, I needed to find out how to attach them to the pulley in the motor. Once pulled out, the motor turned fine but made a fair amount of noise as if under load. I opened the lid (Pic #1) and the old grease was in there as folks have said. It didn’t seem too bad. After looking at how this thing was strung in the door, and the quality of the pulleys, I think the pulleys are my real problem – lots of drag even when I fix this motor.

After removing the top, I cleaned all the parts in kerosene to get the old grease off. Then came the hard part. I could see the termination of ONE of the cables but not the other. I now had to dismantle the gear to get at the other one. At the same time, I figured out why the cranks don’t work very well…or at all. When you put the crank in, it forces two ball bearings to the outside diameter of the crank i.e. outwards. This puts pressure on a plastic race on the main gear, pushing it back on the large central shaft. There is this MONGO large spring on the rear of the main gear which must compress while the gear slides. I really don’t think this will work very well…especially on an older, mildly corroded mechanism Once the gear is forced back, the teeth along the inside no longer engage with the pulley, allowing the pulley to be hand cranked. I hope the pictures illustrate the problem better.

This explains why you can’t turn the thing without the proper tool. If that gear doesn’t disengage, it will not turn by hand. I made a tool with the dimensions that someone had posted a while back. I really had to force it in there and even then, it wouldn’t push that gear back…the balls even scored the tool! I will try again once this thing is lubed up.

I will definitely be addressing the pulleys. This is where the main action is. That motor has a ton of torque. The pulleys are cheap plastic with plastic bushings. I also think the previous guy had this thing wound way too tight. I’ll keep you guys posted.

-Rjay
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Steve,

Yes! I will be looking for these. When I find a part number, I'll pass it along right away.

BTW, I thought I would add this for all those folks with a crank. You could squirt lubricant into the crank hole. It may make for a little mess but the lubricant can go through the area where the small balls are and get onto the shaft so that the main gear can slide. I may help so that you don't have to take the unit apart. There is also a small spring loaded plunger to help push the crank back out. Mine had minor corrosion so lubricant would have helped here. At the base of the spring is a hole. Excess lubricant should not cause any harm....at least that I can tell.

-Rjay

 

Another country heard from!

Hey Gerrit ...How are you?

Your door inside looks as crappy as mine. How can you tell that those are steel? Is that rustproofing in there? I have that on my body panels too but I thought that the early 308's didn't have that.

I think I found a $3 part from McMaster Carr. I will post if I order and receive them. I am thinking bicycle cable for the replacement.

-Rjay

 

Scratch that. I don't think bicycle cable will work here.

-Rjay

 

Jacques,

Thanks for the tip. I was just at Home Depot and I missed these. I did see pulleys but they were all for really thick (1/4") rope. Can you post a picture? I am trying a McMaster Carr part number 3434T22. This is a Zinc Plated Ball Bearing pulley for 3/32" diameter wire rope and is 1/06" in diameter. The 2" seems large to me but if they fit, why not? I am using 1/16" stainless wire rope that I got here in Boulder, Colorado at a hardware store called McGuckins. They have a huge inventory..always have.

-Rjay

 

The part that I haven't figured out yet is how to cut the cable to length and terminate it into the pulley. You can see the small chocks (or strain relief) in the picture. The 1/16" stainless cable came with small copper sleeves that crimp on. "Crimp" puts it mildly...these are about 1/4" OD with a 1/16' ID. The crimp tool at the hardware store looked like modified bolt cutters. I suspect they'll hold.

My real worry is that the new pulleys have a different OD than factory (I think operationally, this is fine). This means the cable length is a bit different. I basically need to cut it for just a tad of slack so that the idler wheel (slides on the inside bracket...you can see it in Gerrits pic), takes up the rest. How am I supposed to do this when the motor is deep inside and you have to take the lid off to access the cable? Any thoughts on this would be helpful.

-Rjay

 

The part that I haven't figured out yet is how to cut the cable to length and terminate it into the pulley. You can see the small chocks (or strain relief) in the picture. The 1/16" stainless cable came with small copper sleeves that crimp on. "Crimp" puts it mildly...these are about 1/4" OD with a 1/16' ID. The crimp tool at the hardware store looked like modified bolt cutters. I suspect they'll hold.

My real worry is that the new pulleys have a different OD than factory (I think operationally, this is fine). This means the cable length is a bit different. I basically need to cut it for just a tad of slack so that the idler wheel (slides on the inside bracket...you can see it in Gerrits pic), takes up the rest. How am I supposed to do this when the motor is deep inside and you have to take the lid off to access the cable? Any thoughts on this would be helpful.

-Rjay

 

So I finished my right window. It is a pain working through the holes in the door panel. Here are a few things I did and a few I found out.

Because I put in ball bearing pulleys from McMaster Carr…nice and robust, and I had to cut the old cable out, I did not know how long to make it. The main motor pulley has a chock to hold the cable on either side. I fixed the one chock that would face to the outside of the car and I left the other one off with plenty of cable to play with. The pulley has to come apart to do this (see the washer clamp compression pics). I drilled a hole through the steel and through the plastic on the side of the pulley that faces the inside of the car. This let the cable hang out where I could grab it with pliers. I strung the cable on all the pulleys and then pulled it tight with pliers and then marked it with a sharpie. I then took the assembly out and put the new chock on the mark and I still had slack! Luckily, the slider pulley took most of it out.

I goofed when I did this measurement because I left one complete loop off the pulley. This meant that there was just enough travel distance to get the window to extend up and down fully. I would have rather had the extra loop because it wouldn’t have been so hard to line it up. I really didn’t want to go buy more cable and redo the whole darn thing.

One thing I learned that really helped me out, was how to get the glass in and out easily. I looked on Fchat and couldn’t find this anywhere. I even posted but no one answered. So, after monkeying with it, I figured it out. I’ll put some search words in for all you guys to find this later.

308 window removal. 308 glass removal. O.k. so…You have to first remove the bolts holding the door lock side window slider channel. There is a lower one inside the door and an upper one that faces the door end. The slider is now loose (important). The window needs to be free of the cables and the bolts in the glass removed. This is for a right door on a 308. Raise the glass about half way by hand then rotate the window counterclockwise. This will make it so the lower right rear can come out the top. The window follows out the top. Reverse this for going back in.

My brand new $35!! right hand switch wasn’t working so I traced the circuit back to the other switch on the left door which also controls this window. It was wired wrong…man, that took me a while…look at the schematic, look at the wires, look at the schematic… and so forth. Once I figured this out, everything was fine. The window goes up and down nicely…about as fast as my wife’s Toyota. The left one is still slow and could use a rebuild. It is no wonder that the right one is slow given that it has to get power all the way across the car through the left door and then across again to the fuse panel and lord knows how far to the battery. It also means that if you have trouble in your right window, check that left window switch first and makes sure it is good because it is in series with the right … too many contacts to go bad!

-Rjay
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Phil,

I found that with the new ball bearing pulleys, they can take a lot of tension without binding. I agree that slack would be good but it seems that the slack (at least in my car) varied with position such that I ran the risk of the cable falling off the track. I think the fella that put a heavy spring on his slack pulley had the right idea.

-Rjay