Possibly selling by '84 400i

hey guys...I might be selling my 400i even though I just got it like 1.5 months ago...it's because I saw this Porsche 928 I really wanted and have been wanting for so long now. It's black on tan with only 12,800 original miles
and is all original. I just spent $4,500 to make it perfect since i am a perfectionist freak. I dropped all liquids, all new brake pads, brake bleed, transmission cleaned and refill, induction to clean the fuel lines, coolant cleaner and refilled, power steering cleaned and refilled, motor was cleaned out and refilled...the list goes on. It has its original mint wheels and the interior is in excellent condition while the dash has absolutely no shrinkage and is still supple. Only thing is it's automatic and the engine runs flawlessly.
The mechanic is well-known in the ferrari community for like 35 years and has been only working and restoring ferraris his whole life.

What do you think its worth? Btw, the body is all original and looks are showroom condition...still has the glasurit orange peel look and is glossy.

What do you think it's worth? #50439 is the serial #

 

To each his own, but I wouldn't buy a 928 for anything more than a coffee table.
When I worked for Porsche we said that 928 stood for the number of days the engine would run before blowing up. The engine blocks were famous for letting go. It was the steel compound that didn't work well. Look in Hemmings and collector car trader and you'll see more then 30 of them for sale for under $7,000.

 

What year 928? I had an 88 s4 with the 5-spd tranny and absolutely loved the car. In fact, I'm waiting for another good 5-spd to buy now after selling my 83 ferrari 308. The engines were built to go 250k miles between rebuilds and most were driven which is why its hard to find cars with under 70 or 80k on the clock. I have heard some nightmare stories about the electricals and a/c and it's a very expensive car to fix, but I never had a problem and regret selling the car which was still in pristine condition with 138k miles.

 

same year...so you liked them a lot but stacey didnt...I know they were very expensive in the upkeep but were fun to drive. Never had one but I heard the torque and horses were a blast! Stacey...can you tell me more about the horrors of owning a 928? What do you think I can get out of the mint 400i?

Many thanks!
Jim

 

Are they really that terrible? I heard they were fast and so much fun...

please let me know in greater detail what I should watch out for?

Many Thanks,
Jim

 

Never owned one. I worked for Porsche as the Regional rep when the 928 was out.
The steel used in the block had a high amount of silicon in it and it had a VERY high failure rate.
It didn't fair well in the re-sale market.

A 'mint" 400i? Well, err... tell me what you mean by "mint".
Do you have service records back to day 1?
Under 40k miles with the ORIGINAL speedo still in it?
Everything working?

You told me once, but I can't recall. Whats the serial number again?

 

I've bought 3 928s and while I do love the way they look and drive I don't think I'd ever want another. They were just too unreliable, mostly intermittent electrical showstoppers! I think the under bonnet area didn't get enough cooling and it tended to cook the wiring loom leading to friable insulation. A 12,000 miler might be not too bad in this respect?

Never heard of any major engine problems though, I'm pretty sure the V8 is alloy?

An absolute mint 400i is for sale in the UK at the moment for £34k which is an interesting and ambitious test of the market.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1980-FERRARI-400i-400-RED-TAN-COMPLETELY-RESTORED_W0QQitemZ150114504631QQihZ005QQcategoryZ18180QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Naw, not test. 400i's bring MUCH bigger bucks in europe.

 

Pics? Tell us more!

 

You're really trading down if you're going from a 400i to a 928s4. You should be able to get $30-35k for your 400i and the 928s4 shouldn't be more than $10-12k for a really nice one. A closer swap would be to a 928GTS with a 5 speed.

As others have said, a bad 928 can be death by a thousand cuts, with the electronics and various ancillary systems (for example, it has two A/C systems - front and back) failing in sequence.

Like the 400i, they're the unloved car in their group (400 vs. 328 = 928 vs. 911) and have depreciated to the point where a lot of people own them who can't afford to maintain them properly, so there a lot of 928s with significant deferred maintenance out there. Check the 928 board on http://forums.rennlist.com/ (under water cooled) for more info.

 

so an '89 928 S4 that was 15k miles and is blue and is mint is only worth 10-12K? that's so little? My neighbor is selling the car for 30K...

cant be 10-12K right?

 

30k is way to much for a 928 gts much less for a 928 S4, I would not buy the others, I like my 400I. although 928 are nice.

 

I owned a 1987 928. I drove it for more than 350,000 miles before I sold it for $600.00 It is no longer with us. It was a fantastic car, and though it gave me a few problems over time, I loved it. However, I also owned a 250 GTE and a 365 GT 2+2, both sold. I now have a 400i convertible (30721 converted) and there is no other car like it. With new mufflers (sounds like a Merlin V-12 Rolls Royce engine) and a few other items, it gets all the attention you can imagine, even in Palm Beach.

My suggetion is, don't sell the Ferrari. Keep it and get the 928 as well if you wish $12K max.). But once you give up a Ferrari, you have given up a most enjoyable car you can own. A 928 is nice to have, a 400/412 is a must to have.

Cheers,

400 GTS

 

I missed the part about 12k miles - that one could be worth as much as $20k because of the extremely low mileage. On the other hand, that mileage indicates that it has been sitting undriven for a significant amount of its life, which could mean problems.

Here is a pretty nice 928GT. Note all of the work it has received.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/90-Porsche-928-GT-black-black-outstanding-condition_W0QQitemZ220109432658QQihZ012QQcategoryZ6432QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

I just bought an 87 S4 a couple months ago. I have a 308 GT4 and a mid year vette (small block);

you can buy an S4 for 10-12, but you'll immediately put in 3-6k on the deferred maintenance, which is what I did (and then some). I started with a clean car, and it's now working fine and in almost perfect shape.

can't speak to the comparison with the 400, but imo, the 928 looks alot better. it is very, very quick, especially for such a heavy car. It's not nearly as much fun to drive locally as the ferrari or vette, but it's very stable on the highway and has alot of torque at 60 plus, probably like the v12 ferrari.

It's a very quiet car relative to ferraris, I did the rear muffler bypass which gives it some tone, and if I keep it I might do x pipes which on my year makes it loud but bearable.

cornering is pretty good, fun, but steering and gas pedal are very heavy.
braking is nothing short of phenomenal; a hundred times better than my ferrari; and as good or better than my vette which has aftermarket hydratek hydaulic brakes.

big things to watch for is same as a ferrari, deferred maintenance. if there's no recent documentation of timing belt, water pump, steering rack, shocks etc, etc, assume you'll have to do them all, at ferrari prices.
eg: shocks 700 plus around 500 labor
a/c head unit a grand;
timing belt is cheaper: only around 1500 with water pump.

the common thing about the cars is that they are both highly undervalued but very rare. Market isn't likely to go up for either in the forseeable future, at least for the porsche.

big piece of advice I didn't take: buy one that has already recently had all the major work done. save youself aggravation and alittle cash (not alot because the guys who have the work done want to get some of their money back).

 

the market for a clean GTS is way north of 30k.
best deal I've seen was around 36k, and that was only once. most are in the low 40's for cars with under 50k miles. some get more than 50k.
you can get a 125k miler which needs alot of work or has a salvage title for the low 20's, but it will take 10-20k to put it into shape. They are very expensive cars to revive.

 

Agreed. The 928 GTS is kinda like the BMW 850CSi. Last of the breed, very or relatively rare, and so much more expensive than their normal stablemates.

Examples? 928 S4s are a dime a dozen, but when's the last time you saw a nice GTS? BMW 850i and 840Ci are a dime a dozen (relatively), but when was the last time you even saw a real 850CSi? Probably never...

That's why the GTS and CSi command premiums over the "normal" versions before.