Thinking about getting a F1 or F3

Cosworth. Plentiful motors and spares. I think this has been covered here in the past.

 

Great question and I'm happy to give you a few pointers as I had the chance to drive both, F3 and F1 in one day: It was a paid deal in the South of France where the former F1 team AGS had its headquarters. I think it is also known as the Larousse racing school. In Le Luc (a couple of hours away from Monaco) they had their racing shop and short test track (about 1.4 km long). We got to drive the track first for about 20 laps in F3 cars and then for 5 laps (or more, depending on your pocket) in a F1.

Here some pics of the F3 cars first:
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Up to that point I had only done a 3 day course with Skip Barber in their single seater cars and compared to those the F3 really felt like a proper race car. It had everything you wanted: Speed, acceleration, brakes, handling and looks and it was a total blast to drive.

As you can see from the pictures the cars were rather simple and robust. Not terribly much in maintenance costs and lots of fun.

Gearbox had a traditional H pattern and felt pretty good. Once I almost shifted down instead of up, but caught myself before releasing the clutch. That would have been an instant spin. All in all a great car and after the 20 laps we kinda got the hang of it. Then it was lunch break and getting mentally ready to "go for a walk with the T-Rex" as our instructor referred to the F1:
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As you can see from the pictures, this was a real F1 monocoque and a quantum leap in technology and complexity and maintenance costs. Of course powered by a trusty Cosworth V8.

So what did it feel like to drive it? First off it made the F3 feel like a toy, like a go kart. It had INCREDIBLE acceleration, stunning decelration, unbelievable handling, defeaning sounds and felt really, really good. Needless to say I was grinning from ear to ear to finally got to drive a F1, but that aside this car was simply the best car I have ever driven in my life: Everything was just perfect: The pick up on the gas pedal, the precision of the shifter, the crisp sensation of the brakes, the direct steering. It felt like piloting a fighter jet on the tarmac, it was unbelievable. And I'm not going really fast mind you. After my five laps I could easily say that it would take me a long, long time to start really using the potential of this car.

Now this AGS was in 1989 a complete back marker. The Spykers of today and the laughing stock of the grid. Yet it was absolutely awesome. And therein lies a good point I'd say: No matter what F1 you buy, the car has so much to give, that it doesn't really matter what car it is. Folks like you and me will never get the full potential out of a McLaren or Ferrari, so why pay the extra $ (unless for sentimental value) for it when you can have as much fun in a "back marker"?

Whisky made a good point about the engine: Make sure it has a Cosworth. Stay away from any one off engines and any turbos. Older F1 cars (sixties, mid seventies) demand a premium. Turbos are a pain to maintain, modern F1 cars need a standing army of engineers to be run, so that basically leaves you with the late seventies and late eighties cars (like this AGS) as the ideal choice. So the next step should be to take a look where you could drive this car. HSR and BOSS series are popular. I happen to know of a Lola F1 that is currently for sale in case you're interested.

In the end it boils down to money. Even in the best of worlds F1 still costs a lot run. 10k for a weekend isn't unusual and that's without having any problems. F3 is a lot cheaper and if you want to do a lot of driving, probably the better choice. If you want to have only a few, but incredibly lasting experiences per year, F1 is the way to go.

 

What type of experience do you have? Go to some of the vintage events and talk with some owners to help give you a feel as to which direction would be the best to go in for you. The difference between F1 and F3 cars is immense. You may want to consider splitting the difference with something like a Formula Atlantic, again depending on your driving experience and budget. I'm assuming this isn't your first track car. If it is, you may wish to re-think the F1 idea.

 

Yes and no:

I agree that it is a good idea to start out with a modest car to get a sense for things. But after that I'd say buy what you really want and can afford. A friend of mine has always lusted after a F1, but didn't want to jump in at the deep end. So over the years he has gradually increased the size/power of his race cars and now is on the threshold to F1. While this might sound logical, he also has now a bunch of race cars he needs to get rid of before his F1 purchase. I think he wasted a bunch of time and money to get where he wanted to be at from the start.

 

Here's a '99 Prost, but it is expensive to maintain. http://carclassic.com/stock.asp?Ref=DY91&Lang=en

 

I think in this situation you have to put a value on the seat time (and money) he has spent to get where he is. There is tremendous value in the experience he has gained and the driving talent and skills he has developed in the slower cars. While he could have jumped right in to something over his skill level as a beginner, he chose to work his way up. It often concerns me when someone thinks that simply because they can afford a car, they are suited to drive it. Many times this is not the case and these types of people can cause needless harm to themselves and/or others. I think your friend has done the right thing in getting much needed racing experience in slower cars and working his way up. It may have cost him more in money however he is much better suited to drive a F1 now (by the sounds of it) and that is much more valuable than the money he spent to get there.

 

I'll gladly relay your kind words to him. I'm sure he'll appreciate them.

BTW: In the States IndyLights are a good alternative: They're just about as fast as a vintage F1, allowed to compete in the same series, but a fraction of the cost to maintain as their parts are available, largely stock/standard and US based.

 

"If you have the means, I highly suggest picking one up" Ferris Bueller

Don't forget, you have to pay for the car and its MAINTENANCE. The same thing goes with buying a Ferrari, you have to set aside a sizable chunk of cash to pay for engines, tires, transmissions, umbrella girls, etc etc.
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Actually with the exorbitant costs of the clienti corsi programme I'd buy any F1 but a Ferrari. As I said before the most "reasonable" F1 cars are the ones your local mechanic can work on and that eliminates pretty much any F1 car from the nineties and this decade.

 

There are two Ferrari F1's availabe this weekend at the Ferrari factory auction. One is a 2006, the other a 2003. Likely a Felipe or Rubens car.

Pocket change, certainly. At least for Andreas. I am still in the 1/32 slot car league.

 

I meant a regular Ferrari road car not an F1, F1 Ferraris are a little bit pricey to buy, maintain, and clienti corsi programme. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Rest assured that once acquired those too will become MS cars. Just as there are no Irvine cars left.

Pocket change? Moi? Hell no. That's why I "only" rent a F1. Seriously even the 3k that an event like the one described below costs, is basically a bargain compared to the operating costs of such an investment.

 

Interesting link that might be helpful, he offers a small bit of insight into running F1 midway through the article:

http://lolachampcar.com/How%20to%20get%20one%20on%20the%20track.htm

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148337&highlight=lola

Good thread to read on this topic.

 

an email I received a month ago with the info:


The cars presently available are:

F2000 Chassis no. 202 – Driven by Rubens Barrichello; won one GP in Germany.

F2001 Chassis no. 206 – This car was driven by Rubens Barrichello, taking 10 podium finishes out of the 13 GPs it took part in.

F2001 Chassis no. 212 – Driven by Rubens Barrichello

F2005 Chassis no. 248 – This car was fielded in five GPs and was driven by Rubens Barrichello as well as being Michael Schumacher’s T-car, which is why it currently sports Schumacher’s race number, etc.From a technical point of view, this car is significant because it is equipped with the engine meeting the new FIA regulations that stated they should last a full two race weekends.

If you need more info pm me.

 

why not one of these???
http://www.stohrcars.com/

looks like you can put one together for less than $50k...

 

Considered the Ariel Atom? Less maintance tham most alternatives. Maybe a good starting point to build up track experience? Radical has the Nurburgring lap record - so they are not slow cars by any means either.