DC to Reading

robbie, what did your car get?

 

That's BOZO the CLOWN.

[size=+2] BOZO!![/size]

This is shakes the clown, he has no resemblance to my clown!!
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Dunno.

Originally, it looked like they were taking 6 points off, but I think when they got back into the judges area, there may have been a change of heart.

I got dinged 3 or 4 points initially for panel fit. Mine are better than most, we spent quite a bit of time on that. sooo.... I guess the other judges talked mine out of those deductions.

I'm pretty sure even a national concours judge would not have dinged me three points for that.

They also deducted a full point for a wiper scratch in the windshield, 1/2 point for a couple of touched up paint chips, and I dunno what else.

MY kids were really getting worked up over it. It was kind of amusing.

Dave M,

 

Dave, do you know how I can find out how many points the 550 got?

 

I loved watching your facial expressions. I'm sure what you were thinking at those moments were hilarious.

 

In the next few days I'll see what I can get from the head judge. Several guys have asked me, and I'll see what I can do.

no promises.

Send my via PM, all info, Owner's name, model and serial number along with an email address, from anyone who wants to see their score sheets, I'll do my best.


Dave

 

Thanks Dave, sending PM now.

 

You don't want to know. I'm sure the judges were well meaning, but they really didn't know anything about Dinos.

Wanted to know if my radio was original from the factory. THEY SHIPPED WITHOUT A RADIO. ANY RADIO FROM THE PERIOD FROM ANY MANUFACTURER THAT WAS AVAILABLE IN THE US IS CORRECT.

Wanted to know about my dash. IT'S MOUSEHAIR, I told them. "OH, should it look like that?" UM, YES.

One judge said the hood lined up nice, the other one dinged me a point.

They had no idea if my books and tools were correct, THEY ARE.

Ran the engine, but didn't check any of the electrical system. I guess they figured it all worked, or perhaps they had been told not to check.

Wanted to know where the HUB CAP for my spare was. Can't put one there and use the tire hold down.

It was a bit of a rough and tumble time.

BUT, I'D LIKE TO ADD, I'd never want to be a judge at one of these, and I'd don't begrude those guys anything. IT IS A THANKLESS JOB. And if there weren't a bunch of guys doing it, we'd be there for ten hours. And, with only three Dinos there, what are the chances of having someone who really knows the cars, that isn't an owner.

Dave

 

Tony---Good meeting you yesterday!!!

 

Was Phil herding the judges at this event again? Seems that there is always some sort of question about what should be judged versus what should stand as factory original.

 

wow, you won a platinum ????????? i guess the old saying holds true ----- its not who you know but who you blow........


ps. congrats.

 

Yup,

And as always he had some very good guys, and some noobs, and some in between.

It's tough, I know. My car is new in a lot of areas, but original in others. I've tried to do my best to stay to original parts when possible. However, when I heard the judges talking about going back over the cars to look for "tie breakers", I knew there could be trouble.

There was a very original GTS next to me, and a nice, but "renewed" one next to him. It appears that the renewed car won out over the original car, much to the displeasure of the owner of the more original car.

Our judges appeared to apply "modern car" standards to our cars, which caused problems.

But, back on topic, yep, Phil was in charge, and was his good old self. I gotta say, he really grows on you. When I first met him, I thought, "Ugh." but now I genuinely like the guy. His pace is a little slower than mine, but... wadda ya gonna do.

DM

 

Yeah... Phil is a good guy.... listening to him is like listening to an episode of Prairie Home Companion! LOL! I'm not sure if Phil has a meeting of the minds with the judges or not before hand.... perhaps instill in them that "preservation" is the order of the day not how new and shiny a car looks. I did not have any such meeting when I judged two years ago.

 

No, I don't know if I won or not!

 

Thanks for the kind words Dave. Just for that, I'm posting the Dino shots now! Congrats on the Platinum.

As far as the daytimers go, they are pretty cool items you can check out at Fchatstuff.com. Keep in mind that the daytimer can be customized as well. Its all digital, anything is possible. I can put your car on a specific month, as long as you can supply a high res good pictures. The Daytimers go thru April 08 and have well over 300 pictures in each one.

regards

Ken
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Dave, Congrats on your success at the show, and to everyone else also. Great job Jon and to Joe and Mr G. (beautiful 550. Great buy.)I have met a great group of guys on here with some fantastic and beautiful cars, that are true enthusiasts for the prancing horse.

I would really be interested in seeing mine also. Sent PM. They beat me on things like the rubber that covers my distributor caps and spark plug wires were too shiney, even though they were original . They also said the stitching on the inside of the steering wheel was wrong even though I have copy of receipt showing real. I didn't even get a silver, even though there were only two coupes in class. My car is for driving and I know it's not a showpiece, but these guys seemed really tough. They had a young boy with them crawling around on the ground pointing out small door dents. I would love to see the results. I would think they would want people to know exactly what was wrong if they wanted to promote the whole idea of concours. That way you could improve your car.

Last year I did really well and would be inclined not to bother taking my car to a concours again if it's not possible to do at least OK without having it repainted and professionally detailed.

From the FCA clubs standpoint they should know that this type of thing discourages the guy like me who is not rich and really drives their car. I put 12,000 miles on my car last year and did the best I could to keep it nice. I don't really take it to track events because at it's age I think really pushing it at a track event is expensive for things like tires and brakes, etc.
The entrance fee for the track events is alot higher too.

Yes I know Ferrari's are very expensive toys for the mega rich to show how much money Blah,blah,blah... and you gotta pay to play blah, blah, blah.... and maybe with my income I should take up some hobby like badminton blah, blah, blah... but I spend a lot of energy on my car to keep it pretty nice (IMHO).

It seems a strange concept that you can buy a new car or one with very few miles that's only a few years old and win a platinum, but cars that are much older and driven a whole lot have such a huge burden to keep them at an equal level. I just think there should be some kind of recognition factor if you drive them alot. (No offense intended to my great friends with newer cars. You didn't write the rules.)

I am running out of organized options.


It's pretty weird also that my car has the air pump smog stuff removed, (which was just tacked on later to get into the USA and killed the performance of the car. Really this and the US bumpers etc were not how the car was designed or intended to be anyway.) but one of the judges actually told me that he had one that was gutted on his so it would do well at concours. Does it make sense to do things to cheat the system like this, but not have a mileage factor included.

After all, I thought the cars were originally designed to be driven and putting mileage on them should meet the true intentions of authenticity in my book.

Lots of the 308's had the fender shocks altered to make them look like Euro cars but didn't see any of the judges even note that when watching them go over some cars. There were so many cars in the 308 classes I wonder how they kept anything straight. I think it was the same team of judges for all probably 25 cars over a period that included many subtle but noticable changes. It probably was a tough class to judge.

Well, my rant is over, but even though I said I didn't care if I the car did well anyway, we went through a lot just to get there any it was frustrating to walk away empty-handed. (OK I was lying)
Thanks-Bob


Yes , I do want cheese with that wine.. LOL

 

Bob.

At the judges meeting this year (held about a month ago) it was decided to try and get closer to what the national FCA wants for judging. Phil spent quite a bit of time discussing where the judges were going to tighten up on the scoring.

Unfortunately for the 308 guys, it was a 308 that was used at that session for instructional purposes. So every judge got a long look at a nice 308, and got significant instructins on what to look for, based on that car.

The current trend in judging is to look for perfection, not originality. Phil stressed that originality was important and that it should be taken into consideration when judging. But, everything I got dinged for was an original item, or an original factory issue.

The trouble begins when you're not sure, as a judge, what is orignal and what is not. Paperwork from the factory, or a good book showing how the model would have shipped is often a help, even to a seasoned judge. After all, they can't know everything, can they?

Driven cars are going to lose to TQ's every time, and any 308 is going to lose to Barry's green 308 anytime, anywhere. I think it will be some time before the original vs. restored question gets resolved. In the meantime, come to the show, enjoy it, and don't sweat the concours.

I'm probably not going to enter my car next year, just put it on the field for display. I don't want to worry about it anymore, I just want to enjoy it. Also, if I just display, then I can judge the Dinos without a conflict of interest.

All that being said, sorry you didn't do better at the concours, and I hope this didn't sour you on the experience. We still had fun, right? It was still a beautiful day, all in all, and there were some spectacular cars to look at. And don't forget the fabulous food.

Dave M.

 

RCRAIG,Dont be discouraged. Dissapointed yes discouraged no. For one thing its a goal to shoot for and when you finally win an award it will be that much more meaningfull. Second...and you have said yourself you come for the great parking spot and comraderie and to see all the beautiful Ferraris. Dont lose site of those reasons. This event was particularly hard on us because we were dodging rain,got lost and arrived late. Just keep it in pespective and lets go for a drive. You will quickly remember why you bought the car and forget the fact that you didnt win a plaque.....This time. Jon in Delaware

 

This is what I was gonna do this year since after the national event I figured what else is there? I feel the same as you about concours these days myself. Maybe next year I'll go back but just to spectate.

Unfortunately, when we started talking about Reading at the beginning of the year, I got the impression that the judging was going to go exactly the way it did for some..... including guys like you and Bob. Seems that the mantra of Ed Gilbertson (Ferraris are meant to be driven!) has waned in the last couple of years as it relates to judging.

Quite a few people on here who have entered concours events, who actually use their cars, have come away dissappointed. Not so much in the idea of judging but in the lack or organization or cohesiveness displayed by the judges. I do agree it is a thankless job but it seems to me that after all these years of Ferraris being judged at concours events that there should not be anything new! It's mostly the same cars that are always participating. As an example, there have been plenty of Dinos judged over the years. So why is there guesswork? If each category is judged over and over shouldn't there be a cheatsheet for each model that points out the details of what should be and should not be for that model?

 

Congrats Dave. Those judges finally wised up and realized you have one of the most beautiful cars.

 

Still no word on me and Robert about our results. We have emailed Pietro several times and emailed/PMed any person I can think of. No word. I did find out the car next to me won a Platinum. That is very good news because that car had more deductions than mine---I was standing there for both inspections...

 

Dude.

IF you bug Pietro, you'll get 10 pounds of poop in a nine pound bag.

Let it rest, I'll get the results as soon as I can from Phil.

Let me see what I can do.

Dave

 

I got my scooter all ready

 

There must have been some screw-up w/ the judging because I witnessed cars in the same class being judged by different teams. My car was judged by the same "condition and panel-gap" guys that judged the Dinos. But Buddy O'Bara's 330 2+2 and some other vintage 2+2s were judged by Sam Smith and another guy. In my opinion, it is impossible to judge w/ the same measuring stick if different people are judging cars in the same class. My sense is that the guys judging my car were not vintage experts at all and probably criticized the cosmetic issues so harshly because they just didn't have the knowledge base for judging the cars on the rest of their substantive merits.

Thankfully, I managed to hear part of a discussion over "the wrong motor" in my car for a massive points deduction because the motor tipo plate on the top of my left cam cover said "tipo 245" - apparently they thought it was supposed to say "365". The 365GT2+2 had the type 245 motor whereas the 330 2+2s had the type 209 motor. I explained this and then showed them where they could find the s/n stamp on the other side of the motor to see that it matched the car's s/n. (for what it's worth, I do not believe that the FCA rules say that the serial numbers need to match; but the right type of motor must be installed.) I was also never asked to operate anything; lights, radio, etc.

I agree w/ Dave that my hat is off to these guys for being judges in the first place. On the other hand, if I were asked to judge Dinos, 308s or, frankly, anything other than mid-sixties street cars or mid-fifties race cars, I would have to decline. I would be doing a huge disservice to the owners and would be wasting their time. I bring nothing to the table for judging a 355; that owner would be educating me, not the other way around.

Bob, I met you in the food line when I was chatting w/ Sam Smith; I think the 308 guys may have the most difficult task when it comes to concours judging - your cars were the first Ferraris that I would call "mass-produced" so there are a lot of them to compete with. They are also old enough now - 31 years for the oldest - that there has been plenty of time for intervening owners to do "un-original" things to them that you would need to un-do for concours purposes.

 

The guy that judged my car asked me several questions about what was stock and aftermarket. Honestly I could of judged the class better I beleive. I at least know what is supposed to be and where and what is stock or not...Kinda gave me a weird feeling--thinking this guy is judging my car and asking me are my shields factory? I guess all in all they did there best to be fair and I learned alot as it was my first Ferrari Concours event....