Where to buy a 348 starter + installation advice

hi, I narrowed down my problem, after installing a brand new optima battery, the car still goes Click Click... I believe I need a new starter.. I tried looking at ricambiamerica.com for starter, but couldn't locate one.. can I get some advice on where to buy one for a 1990 348 TS, and also some instalation tips.. is the solenoid built into the starter itself?. thanks

FOUND THIS ONLINE:
"If a starter solenoid receives insufficient power from the battery, it will fail to start the motor, and may produce a rapid clicking or clacking sound. This can be caused by a low or dead battery, by corroded or loose connections in the cable, or by a fried positive (red) cable from the battery; any of these will result in some, but not enough, power to the solenoid, which is insufficient to pass the power to the starter, which causes the solenoid to click."

 

Don't replace your starter yet!! Chances are that it's OK.

I've posted this several times before. My own 348 had the same symptoms. It began as a reluctance to crank over on hot starts, maybe failing once every 10 times. It got worse, and worse, and worse, until it will now only crank over about once in a hundred tries when you use the key. So I installed a backup starter button, which has been 100% effective. It cranks over EVERY TIME using the button. Why, you ask??

Because there is a voltage drop in the circuit from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid, and the solenoid WILL NOT engage the starter unless it receives full battery voltage. I just went out in the garage and rechecked the numbers. My battery is showing 12.24 volts at the terminals. When I tested for voltage at the main terminal on the starter (wired directly to the battery) I got the same reading, exactly (12.24 volts). I tried to crank over the engine using the key, and it only clicked. I pulled the secondary wire off the starter (the wire that comes directly from the ignition switch) and tested for voltage - it read 11.76 volts. That's right. I rechecked the voltage using my backup button to the secondary wire (this eliminates the ignition switch from the starter circuit), and got 12.20 volts. So the starter operates just fine, every time, when it has 12.2 volts reaching the solenoid, but it refuses to turn over at all, it just clicks, when the solenoid receives only 11.7 volts. That small drop makes all the difference.

There are three ways to fix it:

1) Install a new ignition switch (very spendy).

2) Install a relay system that sends full voltage to the solenoid. There is no problem closing the triggering contacts in a relay with only 11.7 volts. This is the fix that Ferrari apparently recognizes.

3) Install a backup starter button, like I did (not for purists, but it only cost me about $15 to fix).

In case you're wondering, before I installed the backup button I removed the starter from the car and had an expert install new electrical contacts inside it - no improvement. I installed a new ground cable from the battery to the frame, and from the frame to the transmission case - no improvement.

You can test to see if a voltage drop is causing your problem. If the engine won't turn over on the key, put your shifter into neutral (IMPORTANT - you don't want the car to run you over), then unplug the secondary wire from the starter. Then take a screwdriver (or a remote starter switch) and bridge between the positive cable on the starter and the bare terminal you just unplugged the wire from. That's puts full battery voltage into the solenoid terminal, and chances are that the engine will crank over right away.

If your car is a 1990 it should have a Nippondenso starter, like mine.

 

Is it possible to disassemble the ignition swith and then clean/repair the contacts inside it?

 

That's an excellent question, David. I pulled the entire ignition switch (tumbler section and electrical section) out of my steering column a couple of years ago in order to see what could be done. I have pictures here somewhere. You can get the switch out, and you can disassemble the electrical portion from the tumbler portion fairly easily, but the electrical section is not really designed to be easily opened. It is held together with very small brass rivits that would have to be drilled out and replaced. I'm sure it could be done, but I was unwilling at the time to risk doing the job because my remote starter button worked just fine.

At this point I am not absolutely 100% certain that the voltage drop is due to a problem inside the switch, but I'd say it's a pretty good bet. The dealer told me that you can't get the electrical portion of the switch by itself, you have to buy the entire switch, and you have to buy the door locks as well - it's a package. I think at the time they quoted me something like $700.
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Thanks for the reply Jeff. I'm having a similar problem. I think I'll start with checking voltage drops at several locations to see if I can isolate the cause. Maybe all it needs is a larger gauge wire from the switch to the starter relay.

 

jeff, thanks the help, I'll use my meter to check on the voltage near the starter... do you have a picture of the starter connections points, I'm not every familiar with the wiring diagram...thanks

 

JEFF, would like to install a backup starter how do you go about doing that?

btw, I found a burn wire from the positive battery termimal running along the back of the car.. I cut the wire off.. not sure what that is.. its just a thin wire..not sure what is that..ist quite burn, I assume that was causing my battery to drain..

 

It's just impossible to take a good picture of the starter wiring connections while the starter is in place (I tried), so I'll use this old Lancia starter to illustrate. The connections are exactly the same. The threaded terminal holds the positive battery cable, giving constant full voltage to the starter. You don't have to mess with that. The blade terminal just pushes on, no tools required, and it carries the signal from the ignition switch. There SHOULD be full battery voltage coming in this wire when you turn the key, but there is a voltage drop somewhere which causes the solenoid to fail to engage. Just "click".

So to do the test, MAKE SURE YOUR SHIFTER IS IN NEUTRAL so the car doesn't run over you. Then unplug the wire from the blade terminal. Then take a screwdriver, as shown, and use it to jump full voltage from the threaded terminal to the blade terminal. This gives the same effect as turning the ignition switch to "start". It WILL make a big spark when contact is made, but that doesn't hurt anything. Just make sure you don't bridge between the threaded terminal and the case of the starter, or any other grounded device. That's a direct short circuit.

If your starter will NOT engage with the key, but it WILL engage when you jump the terminals like this, then you know that your starter is NOT the problem, and you need to look in another direction (install a relay or a remote start button). If your starter will NOT crank over when you bridge the terminals (and you have 12 volts at the battery), then you have an actual starter problem.

I'll make another post tonight with a diagram of how I installed my remote button.

By the way, it's at least possible that your "mystery wire" was being used to run full battery power to the blade terminal as an emergency starting method, and somehow it shorted against ground and burned up.
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You also might want to check the pos and neg plug terminals. The neg one is near the battery and the pos one is under the air box.

I had a problem with the pos plug connector under the airbox.

 

hey, thanks for the advice, you might be right the mystery wire might be the emergency starting method, I'll trace the wire more and make a new line... about the starter blade, is it located on the top or the bottom of the car? is it easy to just unplug that part? also is the threaded part always expose like that? thanks

 

hi, was the pos connecter burn or something? what do I look for ? thanks for the help

 

The connector under the airbox is a large bullet type which gets sloppy over time. I took mine out and ran a new cable from the battery straight to the starter without a connector in the middle.

 

I did the same thing. That stupid bullet connector left me stranded on the side of the road one. It wiggled loose, and as a result the car was not running on the alternator, and was running off the battery. Well soon as the battery died, which was FAST, I was stuck on the side of the road. After that I got rid of the stupid thing all together and put in a solid cable like rivee did. I also have a solid one for the ground with a marine style quick disconnect.

 

Mine has just starting to have the same problem......again! The first several times it took cleaning up the bullit connector under the airbox.

I'll be out in the garage this afternoon, and hopefully I can get it handled.......

 

thanks, what kind of wire gauge do you recommend, I make a new line to the starter and test it out again..

 

I think 4 guage will do the trick.

 

Go to your local parts house and get a "Battery" cable. Get the biggest guage they have.

Let us know what you've found to be the prob.

 

Ditto the side of the road thing.

 

Hi.. I use the jumper cable to make a direct connection from the battery to the bullet plug under the air box.. the car still doesn't start, also I believe I even unplug the bullet connector under the air box and the car still goes 'click' 'click', what should I do now? how do I test the starter? thanks

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Is this the "blade terminal"? thanks

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Okee doke.

Your first picture in post #19 shows the red "bullet connector" in the positive cable between the battery and the starter. This connector should be clean and tight, in order to pass full battery voltage to the starter motor. It's easy to check with a voltmeter. The voltage at the positive battery terminal should be identical to the voltage at the starter terminal (each end of the same cable). If you unplug that bullet terminal, you will get no battery power to the starter threaded terminal, so the starter will not turn over.

In your other pictures, the red arrows are pointing to the location of the threaded terminal on the starter. It appears that you have a rubber boot on the end of the cable, covering the actual terminal, so you can't see the terminal, but it's right there. On my car, that boot has been removed. You should be able to peel the boot back.

You're very close to the other terminal, the "blade terminal". It isn't easy to see, but if you look just to the left of the threaded terminal, and just slightly lower, there it is! The wire from the ignition switch just pushes onto the blade terminal, no tools needed to pull it off.

If you supply a good 12 volt power supply to that blade terminal (shifter in neutral!!!), the starter should crank over. If the key is off, the starter should still turn the engine, but the engine won't start. If the key is in the "run" position, the starter will turn the engine and the engine will start.

If your car has a Bosch starter instead of the Nippondenso starter, the solenoid is on the bottom of the starter in an entirely different location.

 

thanks for the advice, I'll push the car out of the garage tomorrow morning and take a good look at it top to bottom... do you recommend that I jack up the car? or do I need to remove the air box or other stuff for access? thanks

 

I don't think it will improve access at all to jack up the car or remove the air cleaner box. Once you know where the two terminals are located, you can deal with them fairly easily.

Are you saying that the engine will NEVER crank over on the key at this point? That seems strange, but I still doubt that you have a problem with your starter. The starter DOES make a "click" when you turn the key?

Did you ever answer the question as to whether or not you have an alarm system in the car that may be keeping the starter from cranking?
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that's correct the engine NEVER crank on the key, all I got was Click Click Click... The car doesn't have an alarm... it was strange when this problem occur, there was no symptom, it just went click click out of the blue.

the only issue was that the car tends to drain the battery if its not in use over 1 week, so everytime when I turn off the car, I disconnect the bullet connection near the battery.. but this time it just click only.

I guess my first step would be to test the starter...
I appreciate the pictures that you posted, I now have a very good idea there the connections are..

thanks!

 

quick question, on the wiring diagram #45, do I just rip off that cover to access the connections.