Excuses. It shows he just screwed up, like everyone does, and that he is no more the super hero than Massa. Every driver has a learning curve and an ultimate limit. Hamilton's learning curve is much shorter than many other more experienced drivers, even Massa. But it does not mean that the more experienced drivers will not have a higher limit than Hamilton may ultimately achieve. It certainly does not mean that Massa is not as good as Hamilton at this point, quite the opposite. I see it as the more experienced drivers have had more time to learn more about the nuances of an F1 car, and potentially achieve a higher limit. Experience does matter. What they, Hamilton and Massa, each achieve in 6 months, 12 months, two years remains to be seen.
So far the rookie is doing much better than Massa did when he started out and he's doing better than Massa this year.
And before we hear the old excuse about him starting out in a Sauber: So far Hamilton is also doing way better than Massa when Felipe drove his first year in a top of the field car. PS: There is a reason for why Massa started in midfield Sauber and Lewis in a top notch McLaren. Team managers put people into their cars as they estimate their talents. That's why drivers like Alonso and MS spend one "year" (just one race in Michael's case) in a bottom feeder car and then move on and Felipe spent 3 years at Sauber.
Maybe three years at Sauber wasn't enough for Felipe? Maybe years at Ferrari aren't enough for Felipe? Maybe nothing and no amount of time and money can make him into the top tier driver Ferrari wants? Time's a tickin'.
+1 Ted, also that was a great post in reference to Ron. Although I agree with SRT Mike as well on quite a bit of what he writes on here, I also think he is off base. If you read Ron's post in other sections as well as the Racing Threads, he is a very intelligent guy as well as being a Gentleman.
Ferrari hasn't hired him as a top tier driver, but as #2 (actually as a gap filler to be precise) and as such he is doing a great job. So I don't think time's a tickin. It is only some pink glassed fans on here who think he is a top level driver.
I meant time's a tickin' for him to become a top tier driver. I didn't mean that Ferrari was giving him the brush off.
F*ck, the whole forum is filled with talk about Massa. Massa this, Massa that, blah, blah, blah. Enough for me. Don´t you realize that the big problem is that the number two is becoming our only hope?
Kimi as well he spent 5 years in a top team (McLaren) and he is nothing he is just a overvaluated driver with 10 wins in 110 starts kimi stats: Massa: Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
10 wins in 110 starts...doesn't that make him the most successful driver on the grid behind Alonso? If you are trying to make the argument that Massa is the equal (if not the better) of Kimi, then you should use something other than statistics...
LOL, tea leaves come to mind. I have compared the stats between Kimi and Massa a while ago and they are not easy to compare as Massa spent so many years in a non top car (and whose fault/decision is that?) and the comparison ends up in Kimi's favor anyway. But that's not even the point here: The discussion was about Massa vs Hamilton.
An even more lopsided debate, if you ask me... That is like comparing Michael Schumacher to Ricardo Patrese, circa 1992.
I didn't say Kimi walked the Earth to save Ferrari. I said Felipe is about done and he still isn't a number one driver. Kimi has been a number one driver and now drives for a team that can give him a kore reliable car. His stats will improve and Felipe's won't.
Thanks Tony. You too. I like SRTMike, he has an opinion and is not afraid to state it. Sometimes he actually supports his statements. I just do not agree with the negative personal references. I think all of that will stop. Enough with negativity. Ted, I know your respect for Senna, so your reference to Senna and Hamilton in the same sentence was sacrilege to me, brought me immediate flatulence. Too soon, too early to tell. You may be right, but then we all heard similar references to Rosberg, Kubica, and Heikki. To me, its like saying Massa is the next Schumacher. Lastly, Yellowbird is probably the closest to the action than anyone on this forum. I think his comments have great credibility. He supplies us with firsthand photos, and he hears what is really happening at the track. Would be worth listening to his opinions. Master and pupil at Monaco: Image Unavailable, Please Login
Pretty obvious you do not like Massa, but not sure why. Please, what proof do you have that Massa "is about done", and that "he still isn't a number one driver"? So far this season, Massa has the most wins, the most poles, and the most fastest race laps of any driver on the grid. He is catching up in points to first place. And he is only one of two of the top four drivers that attempted an on track pass, the other being Alonso, and both of them failed. Heidfeld is the only one that was successful, but then Alonso's McLaren was not 100%. What more can he do?
Ron, there was a great article in Autosport by my favorite author, Nigel Robuck on the MS and Massa connection. You should definately take a look at it.
Not after their 5 GPs we didn't anymore. Rosberg had a great start, which lasted about 2 races. Same with Kubica. Heikki was a non starter. Yes I thought highly of him after the Race of Champions, but not necessarily the rest of the world. Now we're 5 GPs in and Hamilton has yet to make a mistake in qualifying or race. ANY mistake he'd make we'd forgive the rookie, but we don't need to. His vest is cleaner than anybody else's this year (Alonso, Kimi and Massa all made their mistakes - Barcelona, Monaco, Sepang). 5 GPs in and still being compared to Senna, MS etc. THAT is exactly what none of the other hopeful talents achieved. None. Not even MS.
Compared to Senna and Schumacher by who? People on FChat? WhooptyDoo! When I hear that from Schumacher, or Frank Williams, or Fernando Alonso, people of that status, then I will agree with you. He's in the #1 car, he's never made the attempt to pass anyone. I like the kid, how can you not, but he is no Senna or Schumacher. That is sacrilege. I hope he stays healthy and wins a few races, but I just do not think he is any better than some of the young guys that are not in the #1 car. And (on goes the flack suit) I do not think he's better than Massa. If he is being held back by Ron Dennis, all the more reason to continue to dislike Ron Dennis. But I do not think even Ron Dennis is that stupid.
I again wasn't clear enough. When I said "about done" I meant he has been racing for long enough to break through and start claiming titles. This and perhaps next year may be his final attempts at a drivers championship. That clock IS ticking and it will only get louder until it pierces his ear drums. I don't care about summing up an entire season 5 races. My nuts could finish 5 races it doesn't mean they'll claim any sort of championship. You hold your horses and wait. By the time this boring ass season is over, my nuts firmly grasped in hand will be waving at the new champion and shaking their respective heads at Massa. Just to be as clear as possible, I do not dislike Massa. I just don't think he'll be a number one driver for a top team and if the powers that be in F1 keep him as a number two I can only be proven correct. I also think he's a weak nancyboy with no respect for himself. Yes he'll collect his money and race cars for a living but he's also an order taker and a lot of his orders had "up the ass" in them. <<< How can you respect a person who doesn't respect themselves? People make jokes about Lindsey Lohan, Massa is the same case. They both need help in controlling and finding direction in their lives. If not, they'll be losers forever. I don't make the rules, I just know them.
In all due respect, I do not think you do. Know the rules that is. Massa is probably the most focused driver on the grid. Do not believe me, believe what everyone from Todt to Schumacher have said, I am only repeating their statements and the multitude of others saying the same thing. But they must all be lying right? And only you are correct, right? He has motivated the entire team with his energy, and has helped them overcome the disappointment in Raikkonen. Again, I am only repeating what is well known. Not to mention that he has the most wins, the most poles, and the most race fast laps of any driver this season. If that shows a lack of self respect, then we should all be so self deprecating. Damn, I hope I disrespect myself that much tomorrow when I make that budget presentation. How do you know that he doesn't respect himself? What makes you think he took orders "up the ass"? An order to win a race is up his ass? Winning races is up his ass? Helping with development of the car is up his ass? Right now he is statistically the number one driver for Ferrari, and that makes him a loser? I would give most anything to drive for the Ferrari F1 team and be called a loser. Please give us some direct quotes and facts. You have my complete attention.
