poll: K/KE-Jetronic Starting Behavior | FerrariChat

poll: K/KE-Jetronic Starting Behavior

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Steve Magnusson, May 31, 2007.

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K-Jetronic/KE-Jetronic starting behavior

  1. I have a BB512i, and it starts quickly, cold or warm, without using the throttle.

  2. I have a BB512i and, under some conditions, I have to use the throttle to start.

  3. I have a K-Jet or KE-Jet F, and it starts quickly, cold or warm, without using the throttle.

  4. I have a K-Jet or KE-Jet F, and, under some conditions, I have to use the throttle to start.

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,930
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Some recent discussion about various starting techniques for BB512i has me curious on the collective experience with K/KE-Jetronic F at start-up.

    My KE-Jetronic TR starts easily and quickly (maybe ~3 secs max cranking time if left for a few days), cold or warm, without touching the throttle per the operating instructions. I know that there are several small electrical problems that can be counteracted by opening the throttle at start-up, and am just wondering if this is really the root cause for people having to resort to using the throttle.

    TIA for voting -- and feel free to elaborate if you wish (I wanted to keep the number of catagories to a minimum).
     
  2. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,607
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    87 328 - starts quickly, no throttle.
     
  3. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2002
    2,655
    Boulder, CO
    Full Name:
    Mike
    1980 and later 308 and 328 (and Mondial / Mondial 3.2) can vote in the 3rd and 4th categories, correct, or no?
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,930
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Yes, I separated out BB512i to be on it's own (since it was the specific model under discussion in the other thread). Everyone with another K/KE-Jet equipped F model should pick from either #3 or #4.

    Don't vote for #3 or #4 if you have a BB512i (I should have excluded BB512i from #3 and #4) -- pick #1 or #2 if you have a BB512i.
     
  5. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2002
    2,655
    Boulder, CO
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Hi Steve,

    My particular situation is that the car always starts without the use of any throttle. When cold, it starts up immediately (less than 2sec), always. Also, the warm up regulator (or equivalent) seems to kick in and throttles up to about 2k RPM.

    However, when hot, the startup experience ranges from normal (less than 2 sec) to a more drawn out (3 to 4 sec) starting process. In this latter case, I still do not use any throttle, but it just seems to take a few additional seconds for the engine to "catch".

    So I'm a "Never any throttle, fast start when cold, slower start when hot" category.

    BTW: I have never had the car actually fail to start when hot.
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,930
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Understood Mike, but I'd still put you in the "OK, working as intended" #3 category even sometimes taking 3~4 seconds. I'd say something like ~10 sec cranking (even if it started) would be unacceptable.
     
  7. carguy

    carguy F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2002
    3,426
    Alabama (was Mich.)
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    My 1989 TR with the KE Jetronic, cold starts after sitting for a few days takes about 3-5 seconds, warm starts immediately in about 2-3 seconds. Each time no throttle at all. By depressing the throttle at start up....just what does that do to help? The only thing I can think of that is affected is that little microswitch on the right side throttle body has something to do with it?
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,930
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Yes, that's one thing that would happen on a KE-Jet or K-Jet with Lambda (although I don't think that that's a factor for start or no start). Opening the throttle plate also will cause the airflow metering plate to be more deflected during cranking which could add some fuel. Also, on the K-Jet, if the airflow plate deflection during cranking is increased enough (by opening the throttle) to open the safety switch, the fuel pump relay(s) get power via a different path.

    Are you guys voting? I don't see the total votes changing -- and where are the BB512i people!
     
  9. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ

    Jul 22, 2004
    32,215
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Furman
    I voted #3.

    Fires after around 2-4 seconds of cranking. Once I used the throttle during turnover and it seemed to mess up the process. Not firing, just turning over. I tried again without touching the throttle and it started fine. Now I never touch the throttle on startup.

    -F
     
  10. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,540
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    I have posted about this before. I have about a quarter million miles on K-jetronic and have never had a single problem ever. Not one. This includes my little 1980 VW Scirocco that I drove daily from when I was 17 until I turned 31. I then swapped driving it with a 87 Scirocco 16V every other day for another 6 years beginning in 99. Then there's my 308 I have had for 10 years.

    All I do is buy brand name gas, premium always ( I have knock sensors on both VW's) and pour in some Techron about 5 or 6 times a year and drive a lot. That's it.

    Basically until I bought my Touareg in 05 I never drove a car without K-Jetronic since before the summer of 85.

    It may be a piss poor foundation to build performance on but don't try to tell me it won't work forever if you treat it right. I am walking proof it will.
     
  11. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2002
    2,655
    Boulder, CO
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Agreed. When cold, the throttle seems to get in the way, so I don't touch it. I do blip it after a few seconds once started to kick the alternator in. I voted #3.
     
  12. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,823
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Correct I voted for 4th, 84 QV
     
  13. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    When first starting, no throttle. After warm-up, a quick blip on the throttle starts the motor right up(seems like <2 revolutions)--maybe Ferrari set some of the earlier K-Jetronic cars up to feel like a carb car. I suspect that Ferrari wouldn't have changed to fuel injection had emissions not been in the picture(remember, the US market represented a huge portion of sales).
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,930
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Thanks for the votes so far -- we need more input from BB512i owners!
     
  15. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    Exactly. My 928 started *easily* hot or cold, idled fine, revved fine, ran fine.

    You and I also saw Pratt at the Helena car show with his Boxer, and he wasn't having any trouble getting started, now was he?!

    But...Pratt's Boxer had less than 5000 miles on it since new. That's just crazy. He'd just done the full engine-out service some 1000 miles ago. 'Sup with dat?!

    People are afraid to put miles on those cars.
     

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