You have quite a way with words, but, unfortunately, you are a bit off base. I have owned 8 Vettes from a 92 to my current 06 Z51 convertible (including an 02 and 06 Z06). The Corvette is an extremely reliable car, basically trouble free, very inexpensive to repair and modify. Furthermore, I have NEVER had a problem with the service department of my Chevy dealer. Granted they do not have the worlds best interiors, but that being said, the interiors are comfortable and do the job. The technology is top notch. They are fun to drive. whether on the road (my daily driver) or on the track. They are assebmbled very well, and do not fall apart, no matter how hard they are driven. You may have had a bad car...it can happen to anyone with any car. I also own a 360 Spider which I also love. But I don't compare my cars because there is not really any reason to. They are very different.
Please explain how a 430 6 speed can feel faster than a 430 F1? To my way of thinking (and I have driven both) this is impossible.
Ronnie, Feel free to consider me "a bit off base". I've owned 3 corvettes.. all Z06's. (I've also owned many other cars - and work in the car industry - and am CEO to 3 auto-based corporations of my own creation - just Google me) The first two, C5's had just "the usual issues" (bad diff seals/etc) endemic to the entire C5 line. I do swear however that my 1988 Fiero had a better interior than both my 2002 and 2003 Z06's. They were actually liveable cars minus the usual orange peel exteriors/etc. The third, an early prod'n (#508) C6 was damaged in the care and custody of General Motors. Who then did all they could to cover up the damage. (Read this as: It was damaged by someone BEFORE it was delivered to ME as new car.) When the damage was discovered during the course of the "roof recall" it was the course the entire event took (as if they forgot 'BMW v. Gore') and what I had to do to get GM to "make it right" that solidifed by utter and permanent disdain for General Motors and anything they make. (Disdan as in: If I had to buy GM or walk - I'd buy stock in the Merrel shoe co.) This was not "cosmetic" damage - it was serious structural damage done to the roof and windshield frame. The damage was only discovered when the local dealership attempted to perform the "roof recall" needed on the Z06. The tragic comedy that then precipitated was a shining example of why GM is going under. What happened? Well, I won't bore you with the minutiae.. exec. summary: 1) I waited ~30 days for GM and the local dealer to replace my windshield frame - then was told (after the time expired) that "That repair was 'too hard' for the dealership to do - so we just drilled out the windshield frame and used 'larger bolts' to secure your roof" NB: This modifed the certified crash structure of the vehicle with neither the mandated tests nor NHTSA approvals 2) When I said "Whoa, Whoa, Whoa - stop right there" I was told that I should be happy for my "Cleetus' garage" repair of my car. In essence I got "what are you complaining about - we 'fixed' your car". 3) This sentiment was echoed all the way to the top with the final straw being the attitude of Rick Wagoner's 'exec. assistant'. 4) Which resulted in me demonstrating why my nickname is landSHARK and not landGUPPY. Resulting in a full buyback of my Z06. I've never had a problem w/ my local dealer either - they are simply attuned to a lower level of service. If you expect service in line w/ the price tag of your car ($70+k) you will be sadly mistaken. My problems occured with and within the GM corporate organization and with the Chevrolet motor division. Until I "pulled strings" (as someone in the industry will have access to) to get the right people to look at my problem, everyone thought the problem was me.. that I had too high of an expectation. To wit that I expected that a $72,000 new Z06 be delivered without undisclosed damage - and that damage - once disclosed would be handled in a manner so as to return the car to the state it should have been in before the damage. Silly me Jim PS: Bob - just as a datapoint - being in the industry myself - I take any test that I didn't observe w/ my own eyes with a large grain of salt. Drivers will often drive to their own biases. A Corvette engineer will be more comfortable in a 'vette vs. an F430. This means he gets much closer to the limits in that car vs. the next one. It takes a special cat to drive a front-engined car AND a rear-mid engined car to their limits as their driving dynamics are that much different close to the limits with the electronic nannies turned off. As to your +50hp - give me some time, OK.. I'm working on the F360 now - as soon as mine arrives. Then comes the F430.
problem is half the ferrari dealers are just bad with a holier than thou attitude. mb dealers too. frig they're all the same!!
Actually it is.. coming from someone who was raised on GM iron before making BMWs his living which help support Ferraris - his passion. My Ferrari Dealer (Steve Harris) couldn't be nicer guys. I just wish they had a 360 6-spd in stock. Jim
Indshrk makes good points - especially problems with GM - freinds of mine went through same thing with a transmission (he was asked "do you know how to shift"). Regarding test drives -a valid point. However, without being indiscreet, the individual who actually drove both cars is both a good friend and co driver with me in both sprint and endurance racing and has driven every kind of car on virtually all road tracks in North America, Canada, and Europe. He has no axe to grind. However, in all fairness, and this is true with all of, we all have preferences and different skills. Thanks for taking the time to elaborate. Best
All I can say is that I am sorry to hear of all the problems that you have had. I belong to a Corvette club that has over 100 cars, and for the most part they are trouble free and most members do not have dealer associated problems. I do have a 360 6 speed (spider) and will sell it when I get my 430.
Jim, sorry to hear about your dealings with GM. That is absolutely unacceptable and should be publicized to hell. Unfortunately BMW and many other brands are no better. I had major issues with my E60 M5 and my E36 M3 a long time ago and I won't go into the details. It's sad to see such a great car is supported by such poor characters. BTW, good to see you a hear. I was a former happy shark injector customer.
Is it fair to compare a $70K car to 200K+ car and expect the Corvette to be as refined? Brute force vs finese. The Z06 is still the best bang for the buck, hands down.
Sorry for being so quick to jump on you about that. I'm not very good at sensing sarcasm on forums. My friend and I hit this same argument every time we talk cars and he just doesn't understand that you can't compare Ferrari and GM no matter what performance numbers they put up. It just hits a sore spot with me sometimes. My bad.
By the way, as to "just the facts", let's not forget the 9/06 R&T World Superpowers test (because I actually did until this morning). The F430 was 2.1 sec per lap (1:17.4 vs 1:19.5) quicker than the Z06 in that test. So facts are a curious thing, I guess. http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/WorldSuperpowersTrack.pdf Gary
Even if the 430's brakes were steel, there is no way that the Z06 stock brakes are better. I have driven many different cars on the track, (The Z06 included) and one of the Z06's downfalls is it's brakes. Bang for the buck it is a great car, faster than the 430 in a straight line, but I do not see it handling/braking better than a 430 (stock vs. stock of course). I am not surprised that the 430 was not pushed harder than the Z06 in this particular "test" but people were driving somebody else's cars for crying out loud.
Respectfully - I disagree. Both the Z-06 and 430 brakes cannot stand up to continued hard braking under race conditions. The facts are the 430's went away sooner. The Z-06 is faster. It is lighter and more powerful with stickier tires (a expensive tire on the street since it loses half its tread by 8000 miles), but a big advantage on the track. The cars were "pushed" hard. They were bought for the comparison and the only concern was going into a wall at 150mph. I own a Z-06 and 430 and agree with the tests. As someone who has raced wheel to wheel for 25 years, racing and "tracking" are very different. If you don't believe me, check my qualifying results at Nelson Ledges this last weekend (I couldn't race because a steering rack failed) in a 2002 Z-06 (1.10.9). The car has 380hp at the rear wheels, less than the 430. I challenge anyone to take their 430 and match the time because you will quickly understand the difference between tracking for fun and scaring yourself lap after lap. These guys took the cars to their limits. Best
Lordalmighty that is true! no matter what you think about the Vette, if you want to go fast around a track on a budget, it's the best place to start. My buddy has a C5 Z06, and he can run circles around anyone in his class. And rotors are $25! The Vette is not my thing, but if your looking for (speed/cost)=fun, then you will have to search long and hard for it's rival. And you will not find it coming out of Italy. And I think that is what was meant with "F is not about performance." I personally do not base my enjoyment on the equation above. In fact, I don't care much about the absolute speed, I care even less that someone else's car is faster, and I only care about cost so far as I have to be able to afford it.
I agree with and applaud this statement. However, you will take almost all the fun out of intarweb car forums with this approach.
I have not read it - could you repost? I have no reason to doubt any report, but know what I have reported to you. Best
i am somewhat - they're about moderate performance, allure and sexy looks. GT2 been better performer for some time, my new gt3 kicks 430 ass, but stradale is better looking. 430 replacement gets any uglier no reason for F. as for z06, i had the new one for 5k miles, agree with member who said POS, it is fast, but it breaks. once i put gt3 seats in it decent track car, until it breaks
RBK, you can see the track data and times over here: http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/WorldSuperpowersTrack.pdf
Is that test a joke? A C6Z06 is going to beat an F430 in a straight line 100 times out of 100. Regardless of what the actual track mph is shown at, an F430 trapping 5 mph faster than a C6 Z06 is a complete and total logical impossibility. This is to say nothing of which is the better or more desirable car. When there is one piece of data that absurd, all other data is subject to complete skepticism.
Thank you for information. Speed and lap times contradict others. The problem for all of us absent prersonally witnessing tests is we never know the entire story. Thanks again. Best
