Cooked my coil

If I am not mistaken, those coild look like 'Jacobs' brank coils. I am not sure of their quality. I have never used them. They probably fried because they were not meant to be mounted sideways. I just installed two Bosch 'red' supercoils in my '76, and it really transformed the car. Any good quality name brand coil should be fine in our application. The Bosch 'blue' coils have internal ballast resistors and require the bypassing of the external resistor which does not take long, but they are not a 'plug and play' coil. I would just be sure to get one that is not internally resisted, and is epoxy filled so it does not matter which way it is mounted. To my knowledge, all Bosch coils are epoxy filled. Should you go with an MSD, I would highly recommend the 'high-vibration' coil they offer. That model is epoxy filled and I believe the part number is 4222. Good luck!

 

there should be no reason a coil can't be mounted sideways, it's an iron core with copper windings. now vibration is another issue altogether as that will shake things up a bit the wire was loose and arc'd and any moisture added to the problem. replace the coil or coils with new since you're using an MSD 6a I'd stick with MSD coils, they have many to choose from.

 

I have never heard of any issue regarding mounting horizontally, in fact most cars seem to have them mounted that way, some even right on the engine itself. Just remember, if you have high resistance on the high tension side, this can be one of the results. The energy is trying to get out at the weakest point, and if thats not the plug it will find its way out somewhere else.

I was under the impression you were running a straight points ignition system with resistance wires and plugs, not MSD. I had 6A's on my second car, and after twice having one go nuts on me after a few hours running, I took them off and got rid of them. Others have had those things go bad, and sometimes its worse than having the thing just quit completely. And there is a reason MSD shows dual setups with a switch and wiring diagrams, they fail. That would require four MSD boxes on a 308 just to have that kind of redundancy. Combined with the almost 16 amp load (8 amps each) on the electrical system to run them, I dont miss them at all.

 

Looks like the MSD Blaster2 in chrome with the sticker pealed off:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MSD%2D8200&N=700+301087+115&autoview=sku

They are good coils and long lasting PB : )

 

Do all 308's (including my 84 QV) require a coil WITHOUT an internal ballast to be simply "plug and play"?

 

Ballast resistors are only required on points ignitions to limit the current and keep from toasting the points. On a Qv you want a non-ballasted coil.

Birdman

 

This is exactly what I thought until a few weeks ago when Perfusion went out and bought a cuople of aftermarket (MSD?) coils for his GT4. In the instructions it said that these coils are meant only to be mounted vertically, for other directions of mounting, buy their heavy-duty version of coil. He changed them for the heavy duty version, but what the difference is, I have no idea. (Price, no doubt!)
The Pertronix coils I bought said nothing about mounting orientation

 

Can anyone recommend a good source online for the Bosch Red Coil?

 

I used the red ones and painted them to look like faux Marelli units. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105874&page=14

 

The quiry for a Bosch red coil. They are available at victoriabritish.com.

I was told directly by a msd employee that the regular blaster coils cannot be mounted sideways, as is the same with any oil filled coil. That is the only reason I thought that might be a possibility for the coil above going awry. I have not heard first-hand of an oil filled oil going bad just because it was mounted sideways though.

 

can the Bosch Red mount sideways?

 

Yeah what's the deal with the bosh red or any other coil that can upgrade the standard ones on a '80 i? Mine are working fine but if just replacing the coils can improve performance i'd like to try it.

What's the recommendation?

 

Bosch red and blue coils are epoxy filled and can be mounted in any direction. According to Bosch reps, the red coils are rated at 55k volt output which is higher than anything in a canister coil configuration. The red coil has no ballast resistor, and if you have points, you must retain the ballast resistor that the Marelli coils used. I was advised not to allow more than 10.5 volts going to the red coils if you still have points, and not more than 13 volts to the blue coil. The blue coils have an internal ballast and are rated at 38k volts. The red coils are usually about $50 each, but for some reason, victoriabritish.com has them for $30 each, and the blue coil for $40. I honestly think they swapped their part numbers on accident. The red coils are far superior and you will notice a difference.

 

Some manufacturer recomend to mount it right side up because some coils are OIL filled for cooling and they don't want the oil to leak just in case.

 

If you have points and you still have to limit the current to well below the ability of the coil then would it make a difference if you had the blue or the red?

Is there still an advantage if you still have points?

 

The main reason I went with the red coils was because I did not want to change any of the wiring under the coils or bypass the resistors. A non-resistor coil just made it more of a plug and play operation, plus I do think that the red coil is going to have a lot more poke than a blue even if it is working with less voltage. I am no electrician, but the blue does not have as high a primary wind ratio (Red is 200:1 blue is 150:1) nor as quick a rise time. They both would work fine, but call me old-fashioned if I want an as original car as possible. I would have purchased Marelli coils if I could see the sense in paying that much for an inferior coil.

 

I just got off the phone with VictoriaBritish. Not much help. I wanted the Bosch Red and they told me I had to tell them what car it was going in or they could not look it up. Picking from MG and Triumph possibilities without points I guessed a TR8. They said the TR7 and TR8 listed both the red and blue. So far so good. The prices listed were $29.95 for the Red (part #10-421) and $39.95 for the Blue (part #10-420) Seemed odd to me so when I asked about the details of the coils they told me the Red was rated at 17,000 volts and the Blue is 26,000 volts. I thought there was only one Bosch Red and one Bosch Blue out there. Obviously there are more variations.

Where can I find one of those Bosch Red's with the 55,000 volt option? This shouldn't be this hard with the internet but when I google it all I get are stories about people's cars and sites that are of no help.
Can someone post a direct link to a dealer's Bosch 55,000 volt Red so I can just click and buy?

 

So you don't have a resistor on the red coil but you use the one the car already has.

Every 308 i test drove but one took about 3-4 seconds to start. Wonder if the coil would help. The one car i drove with an updated electronic ignition started faster than my nissan.

 

They have their figures all wrong. I spoke directly to Bosch reps about this before. There is only one Bosch red, and it is made in Brazil. Only one Bosch blue which is also made in Brazil. The quality is fantastic. The red is 55k volts, and the blue is 38k volts. The red coil is basically a blue coil without the internal resistor, but with extra room the red coil has allows their to be about 30% more windings inside, which makes it much more potent. I have no idea where victoriabritish obtained their figures, but they are flat wrong. I ordered two of the part numbers you listed (part #10-421). They fired my fouled plugs and cleaned them up in a couple miles. Huge difference. I was having the worst backfiring issues with my 140 main jets on my rear bank. Issue gone. VW guys swear by the Blue coils, and on just about any search done on google for voltage out of a blue coil, you will find 38k volts. The red coils are far more potent than that due to their extra windings.


Yes, I just use the stock .8 ohm resistors that was used my stock Marelli coils. I allow the carb bowls to be filled a bit, stab the throttle a couple times, and the car starts immediately.

 

I've dealt with VB for many years with parts for my British cars. They're usually the cheapest supplier, but they rarely know what the heck they're talking about. So don't take anything they say to actually mean anything.

 

I wanted to run this buy you guys first. I need three and returning an electrical part is difficult if it turned out to be different. I hope the price they quoted me is correct. $29.95 seems a good deal.

 

$30 a coil is a great deal for those coils. Go for it. They MUST have their part numbers backwards because everywhere else I find red coils, they want tons more for them.

 

Dr. Tommy,
Summit Racing has every coil under the sun and once you order from them once you get their inch thick catalog every few months....fun to read!

Birdman