308 electronic conversion

It seems that everyday someone is converting their 308 to pertronix electronic pickups along with an electronic module of some sort like a crane XR700 or 400. My question is why are you using the modules? I installed a pertronix in a 67 mustang last week converting it from points, took 15mins and required no module as the pertronix unit (ignitor is the name on the box) did what the points used to do only better. For $60 and 15mins of my time the car was converted. A 308 cant "need" this module or even a pair using one per bank, seems like wasted time and money to me. I know the advantage to a multispark ignition but if the points do the job on my 308 beyond the redline why wouldnt a simple pertronix upgrade less the boxes and wiring do the job well enough?

 

I think the xr700 module acts as a capacitive discharge system and charges the coil with around 400 volts. The spark advantage with the xr700 would be my main reason for using the xr700 over the Pertronix. The modules were a pain to hide. To be honest, I ended up pulling my xr700s and putting points back in. I put in a stronger coil and it runs really well. Maybe when the points start giving me trouble I will go to Pertronix just because you never know they are there. But for now, call me old fashioned.

 

I put a Pertronix in my Esprit last year and all that needed to be changed was the pertronix unit and a new coil that was it and works great.

 

I have an MSD 6AL, and as you know it is especially helpful in cold starting and prevention of plug fouling at low running from the typically rich Weber carburation. I have a Mallory Unilite optical trigger and with the MSD box in the trunk away from engine heat; it has been very reliable for about 4 years. Of course, being a belt and suspenders guy, I also carry a little jumper kit in the trunk that allows me to switch the wiring to conventional triggering if the MSD box fails (similar to the Dinoplex switch).
If it is helpful, Norwood's in Dallas uses them a lot.
Good luck.

 

Have Pertronix's and no boxes. Runs great

 

I looked at those and decided to go Electromotive so I could get rid of the distributors and mechanical advance. However, they seem great to me as an alternative to points. The only thing I couldn't figure out is which one to use. They make about 20 different models of the Ignitor 1/2 for different model cars. Which one did you use? Post pics!!

Birdman

 

Had mine done by Don King in Ca. back in 2000. I believe it was the ignator I system at the time. He uses the Ign II now but the installation is no different. I don't have any pictures but if I ever have to go in there again I'll take a few. Enjoy the ride

 

Originally I got the impression people here thought a module was required to make the system work and after I converted this mustang I thought I would open my mouth so to speak. I went with what the mustang parts place sells, an "ignitor" by pertronix, they also offer the "ignitor II" that has the ability to change dwell according to rpm which the ignitor I does not do, whoopdi do! The car runs great, just came back from a spin in it top down, not a ferrari but still cool, then I took the boxer out and that got my blood pumping!

 

The Pertronix Ignitor unit is the functional equivalent of your points. They do exactly the same thing as your points do -- they trigger the coil to fire, and the location of the rotor at the time the coil is triggered determines which cylinder the spark goes to. That's why you need two units in the dual points Ferrari distributor/dual coil setup, as you are affectively running two 4-cylinder engines in tandem with that setup. The MSD or Crane boxes go between the Pertronix/points and the coil and help with coil efficiency and can give added performance through things like double strike sparking. But you are still basically relying on the points/Pertronix to trigger everything as well as the mechanical advance of the distributor to essentially control timing. (I'm sure one of our electrical gurus can give a more complete explanation of how these boxes work in conjunction with the distributor and coil.)

A full electronic system like the Electromotive XDI eliminates points all together, either in the form of actual points or the Pertronix type trigger. Instead, a crank sensor is installed that tracks where the crankshaft is in relation to the cycling of the engine. The sensor feeds information to a computer control module that calculates crank position, engine speed (rpms), etc., and electronically triggers the coils to fire. Ignition advance or retard is done electronically by the computer and does not depend on mechanical advance as the distributors are completely eliminated.

BTW, I know lots of folks who have put Pertronix units in lots of old points cars. You should be aware that they are known to fail from time to time. I'd suggest carrying an old set of points in the car, just in case. Old points are a lot cheaper than carrying a spare Pertonix unit.

 

Still learning......is it really necessary to alter a carb 308 from points to these electronic gadgets? Are points really that bad? Sure, they need maintenence, but, they wont leave you stuck on the road from an electronic quirk. They will give you some warning, at least.

You own a classic 308 with carbs, and then you go and add elec gismos. Tell me I should get used to this approach......

 

I think it's about timing percision at higher rpms. Points tend to float and you can see your tach respond accordingly, while the electronic replacements allow a smooth ignition all the way up and beyond. In carb cars, hotter and more consistent spark avoids fouling and gives better performance. A no brainer for me.

 

Exactly. If points were that good, modern cars would still be using them. But they don't. Because the electronic systems are based on sensing crank position and making calculations based on that, it is much more precise, and allows for better control of advance over a wider range. No moving mechanical parts means less chance for a wear related failure. And points can be very sensitive to things like moisture, temperature, etc.

I switched over to the XDI system on my '78 carbed car this spring, and with just doing that, the car runs much more smoothly and eliminated coughing and backfiring that existed before. I can't wait to do the carb rejetting and balancing and see where I'm at on performance.

 

Is the pertronix a direct replacement? What about dual distributer cars? The last time I looked intothis(about 10 years ago) It wasnt available

 

In answer to your question. Yes points are poor. The very fact that you are controlling an ignition system which requires precise timing with a device (or two) which can never really be properly set is a poor idea. Even if you do setup them up ok at static or idle, how do you know how they are behaving on a 100 mile run. Ok simple, but I'm afraid they will leave you by the road side more then an electronic equivalent will.

The dynamics of points are as unsohpisticated as a steam engine yet we rely on them controlling somthing which implicitly operates at much higher speeds. You probably won't notice much difference when replacing a well setup points configuration, but it's the piece of mind that transistors don't exhibit any of the characteristics of points at high revs (well not until transistors start operating in the MHz - GHz frequencies), not to mention removing all the mechanical problems associated with points.

Ok, I've not done the pertronix conversion on my 308 yet, but have on my other cars and gone have the days when I check my dwell angle and points condition. Basically it might be worth looking in the distributor after 50K miles to see how the high tension contacts are doing.

As far as amplifiers are concerned then sure they provide a better spark by boosting the output from the coil (by boosting the input in terms of voltage levels and charge time). You should probably get more out of your fuel (particularly important in the UK £4.50 gallon!), but it's a separate issue from replacing the points. Although correctly set, but poor condition points won't help the coil charging.

A question for those who have used the pertronix - which ones did you use and which rotor insert is correct for a single distributor car ?

As a final thought... even our friends in the far east that produce cheap and strange little cars fit electronic ignition. Seems a shame not to treat your Ferrari to it.

Hope this helps

Lee

'77 RHD GT4

 

I thought I'd upgrade the ignition with the Pertronix replacement of points until I inspected the mechanical advance-retard mechanism. What a mess. Broken parts. Corrosion. Good grief. It's amazing the 1979 Carb 308 would run at all.

With the help of Steve, Adrian (here) and others I'm amazed at what's how there. First, this will not be a show car. It's not a daily driver (just the thought blows my mind) We zip around two lane roads in Northern CA on Sundays. So, reliability is the issue.

Some know Ford developed a system EDIS-8 (Electronic Distributor-less Ignition System) almost 20 yrs. ago. Complete units may cost $135. Ignition voltage can be pumped up with something like Megajolt ($160) wired to the EDIS.

This is not for the pure (originalist) at heart. But, if run baby run is fun, read on.
All of the original ignition (except spark plugs) go in a box and stored on a shelf- 2 complete distributors, coils, micro switch- everything. Box it. Label it. Store it. Gone.

Replace it with the Megajolt-EDIS-8. No moving parts. Set timing through a USB cable from the EDIS to the laptop sitting on the passenger's seat. Set the timing to your application. Some will chose to install a toggle switch on the dash to switch timing from street to "hot" use.

The challenge is installing the trigger wheel on the crankshaft behind the balance-pulley. The sensor (VRS) must be securely hard mounted close to that trigger wheel.

So, if your 308 is a show car- forgetaboutit. But, if getting there is where its at, check out the simple (trigger installation excepted) cheap EDIS-8 w/Megajolt.

 

I went with two Crane Cams XR 3000s. They were easy to install, did take longer than 10 min though, easy to time, mated them with two E core coils. Overkill maybe but that was over 10 years ago no issues since.

 

Going to electronic ignition should not be considdered a gadget but un upgrade.
An upgrade makes your car better.

in this case: changing from a stone-age design to a year 2000 design.

 

I know, it's a different model, but when I had my 330 2+2 ignition system converted to electronic, the result was literally like night and day. Everything to do with starting and running improved.

Norwood Performance installed all of the components inconspicuosly. You'd have to search hard to find them.