Actually they aren't, and he isn't. He's qualified that car around P6 to P8 all season. He's obviously quicker than Coulthard. The problem is, the damn car doesn't last. I can't even remember if he's finished a race so far this season.
Why? Just because Coulthard's car lasted in both qualifying and during the race at Barcelona? That could have very easily been Mark in that car. Also, Mark was P6 at Monaco, a track where driver talent is more prominent, and where was DC? By the way, Frank Williams happeneds to disagree with you. Also, In an interview with DC, when he was asked why he joined Redbull he gave a very direct answer. "Because nobody else would have me!" I can retrieve that video of him saying it if you'd like. It's very easy for people's outlook on drivers to change. When Nick was scoring his 4th place finishes, and passed Alonso at Bahrain (brilliant as it was) people started saying how underrated he is and I even saw some people indicate that Kubica was overrated. Before the BMW car became better, people would have said how mediocre Nick is, and now? All i'm saying is that good luck and a better car and increase your stock with the fans quite a bit. The opposite is also true.
DC may be a has-been but Webber is a never-will-be, is what it boils down to. DC was a winner once, Webber is not. While I don't rate DC all that highly (and never really did) he is still a credible driver. Weber, on the other hand, seems to have an awful lot of "bad luck". After some point, you have to question how much of his misfortune is due to his lack of performance. A lot of drivers have runs of bad luck (kimi, anyone?) but are still able to show their talent. I have yet to see Webber do much to impress me other than a couple of quick qualifying laps.
It really doesn't matter how good a grid position he gets in qualifying as he usually botches the starts.
Umm. That is not what it boils down to. Rubens was a has-been. He's still poor. Being a winner is more a function of the car than driver. Really? Do you think Heidfeld has bad luck? Because Webber was basically even with Heidfeld in 2005. Heidfeld is now being touted as one of the top drivers on the grid! That's a strange sentence. I don't think anyone doubts that Webber is fast. He might ride the cars hard (although I'd think his unreliability is a function of the cars more than anything else), but very few think is he slow.. Couple of quick qualifying laps? Are you serious? Webber is the best driver on the grid in getting rolling turds to high grid positions. He was putting Jags on the first and second rows of the grid!
And he's done sooo much with those qualifying positions... If ever I need a guy who can backpedal through the grid, I will who to call. DC knows how to win, Webber doesn't. Plain and simple.
Not fair man, who are you to say that the car is able to maintain those performances throughout the race? In fact they can't, because that what makes it a backmarker car right? DC knew how to win when he was at Mclaren, when he had one of the best cars on the grid. There is also a reason why he joined Redbull, he said it himself "Because nobody else would have me!" You're entitled to your opinions, but just realize that Frank Williams strongly disagrees with you. I don't understand why you're being so harsh on him though?
I beg to differ. Given that Webber is likewise at Red Bull, it would be appear that Frank Williams strongly agrees with me...
Haha! Mark left Williams on his own. From what i've read, Frank actually wanted to keep him. Mark is certainly a better option than Wurz, isn't he? Mark was fed up with the crap Williams, but it would seem he bit himself in the ass with this move.
Webber obviously knows how to get a car around a track quickly. He is fast over a single lap. Very helpful in qualifying indeed. In the race however, he is utterly useless. He almost never delivers. Watch Mark drop back from any startingposition, no matter how high up on the grid. I would never consider him (if I had a F1 team that is).
I made a post in another thread addressing how people's opinion of drivers change very quickly. Before BMW improved their car for this season, people would go on about how mediocre Nick is, but now their saying how underrated he is. A good car and good luck can do wonders for a drivers reputation, and the opposite is also true. The day when Mark gets a reliable car, the results will translate, and people will say how underrated he is. There's nothing really wrong with these judgements though. We're all passionate about this sport, and it seems like most of us need drivers to idolize, and some to tear down and critique negatively, all with very little information because we're on the outside looking in. There hasn't really been a driver in which i've had the need to say extremly negative things about. Although I was disappointed in Massa last year, and pissed at Fisi when he swiped out Michael's tire at Interlagos. Anyways,*fingers crossed for Mark!*
Sure, the general public doesn't think about things like this logically. They see Rosberg get a 6th place in his 1st or 2nd race and think he's the Messiah. He then gets crushed by Webber. It was/is pretty apparent that Mark is fast. By teammate comparison it's pretty easy to gauge relative strengths of drivers. Webber is crushing Coulthard - to the point I think Coulthard will retire this year. Coulthard might have more wins, but he simply is not as fast as Webber.
Except in 2005 when he was practically identical to Heidfeld (24 points to 28 points) when they raced to together. And when he crushed Rosberg last year (7 points to 2 points, and crushed in qualy)? If he wasn't taken out by Fisi in Mayalsia after 36 laps in Mayalsia that count would have been 30 points to 27 points. Oh yeah, it's clear Webber isn't a racer. Please, you want to put up some data?
Just watch him in the race. I see Mark putting his car high up the grid in qualy, but by now I just know he isn't going to do anything with it in the race. He just tumbles down the order once the red lights have gone out. Whenever he gets in the points it is usually down to circumstances beyond his control.
The point is, I am not hung up on statistics. There are many circumstances that lead to a driver getting points or not. Talent is just one of them. There is no data that proves Webber is lacking in race pace. If there was, he would be out of a job by now. The only thing we can do to make up our minds on drivers, is to use our own observation. I have done just that and I have come to the conclusion that Webber lacks racepace. He hardly ever makes use of his good qualifying positions and I would consider that a major problem if I were the responsible teammanager.
